Sauerbraten 2006-02-27 release

by Aardappel_ on 02/27/2006 10:31, 98 messages, last message: 08/26/2006 00:09, 73767 views, last view: 05/01/2024 16:40

A new release! get it from:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=102911

The changelog:

# added Fanatic's new soundtrack! 15 2 minute tracks, played at random in sequence (they were meant to "connect"), an endlessly varying song! :)
# experimental gameplay feature: the health boost / megahealth now only gives you +10, except it is permanent to your maxhealth for this game, as opposed to just health.
# experimental forward push on jump. Let me know if this is cool..
# text particles can now be any size, and now show the player's name permanently in 3d as well as any chat
# made T default key for multiplayer chat again, Y is now default for texture edits.
# frags now persist across disconnects
# fixed hellpig bounding sphere
# added menu page scrolling
# "sleep" command now supports multiple timers
# "music" command can now execute commands when a song is done playing
# optimized material rendering by grouping into larger surfaces (toggled by "optmats" var)
# many tiny tweaks to the multiplayer gameplay
# "maxfps" var for limiting fps
# "showmat" var for rendering invisible materials and selecting materials in edit mode
# edited cubes default to fullbright until calclight/patchlight
# added coopedit support back in | no map uploading yet...
# rewrote physics to be closer to the original Cube physics

I will make seperate threads for each new release from now on. It'd be good to have discussion on specific releases in seperate threads.

Enjoy!

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#73: Re: ..

by aphid on 03/09/2006 21:21, refers to #71

Hmm...if someone writes an FTP server and publishes the code under the zlib license, and someone else comes along and modifies that code, does the binary have to use a different port than port 21? Can the modified code still use the FTP protocol?

I have no idea if this is a proper analogy, but I'm throwing it out there.

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#74: Re: ..

by CC_machine4 on 03/09/2006 21:55, refers to #74

so change the name from "TempleOfAphid" to "aphid's modded server" and it'd be fine

oh and aard, i was just quoting someone else to get my point across.

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#75: Stuff & things

by StillPeter on 03/09/2006 22:29

"Altered source versions must be plainly marked as such, and must not be misrepresented as being the original software"

See, I'd argue that this particular clause means that the sourcecode must make it clear thast it's altered, I don't feel this applies to a binary made from that source since it talks specifically of the source version.

Of course, I do think that you *should* tell people that it's a modified server, to not do so would not be illegal though.

This was really just a side point though. Ideally. What I think would be grand would be like I mentioned easier about the mod beach, this would be advantageous for many reasons. Inclusive of this would be tweaks like Aphid's would be thoroughly tested before making it to the official client and server. A bit Like having a team of map testers and approvers would be advantageous because it would mean Aard still gets final say, yet it would remove most not 'up to par' maps beforehand.

(Or does a system like this already exist?)

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#76: ..

by StillPeter on 03/09/2006 22:31

Man is my typing off today, easier / earlier, 'modified server' should be 'modified server binary'

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#77: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 03/09/2006 22:42, refers to #73

This is not a very good comparison. the ftp protocol is an open protocol. The sauer protocol is particular to the GAME. While the source is open, the game is not yours to modify.

Try making a new game server with different functionality for other games out there (even with entirely your own code!) and see how fast you get a "cease and desist" letter. Just because sauerbraten is free and I can't afford a team of lawyers doesn't mean I have no rights.

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#78: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 03/09/2006 22:50, refers to #77

oh and, before this discussion turns nasty, let me make clear that I have nothing against aphid, and I'll gladly consider putting features like that in the official release. I am just using his case as an example to clarify to people the difference between the source (open source) and sauerbraten, the game (not open, owned by me and indvidual media authors).

I would like this whole open source thing to work. But with all the cool stuff we're adding to the engine & game, it will become more attractive to all sorts of people, and I hope the above distinction can somehow be made clear and people can create their own stuff using it in the RIGHT way. But sofar I don't have high hopes.

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#79: Re: ..

by StillPeter on 03/09/2006 22:57, refers to #77

That's like, a trademark and propriatary source issue.

Plus, the sauer protocol isn't specific to sauerbraten, it's specific to the source too, a binary made from the zlib sourcecode can (and, in fact, will by default) use a compatable protocol (identical in sauer?). I mean of course you have rights, but you passed on some rights to the rest of us too. And I am in your debt, as are all of us, which is why I say what I do about having a mod client, best of both worlds and all that.

I'd liken it more to having contrib builds than anything illegal.

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#80: Re: ..

by StillPeter on 03/09/2006 23:03, refers to #78

I do believe a contrib alike system would be very useful in helping this aim. Heck, probably do a great deal in helping any modded servers being created as modded servers instead of official servers - they could, I don't know, have a plus at the start of their name to indicate this.

Even if you dislike this idea, having the client protocol ID placed at the start of a server (like, mention it in the how-to host bit in the documentation) would be a good way to let people know which servers will work instead of getting an error when they try to connect, or perhaps even only display servers they can interoperate with. (but the former is easier and requires zero coding)

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#81: Re: ..

by eihrul on 03/09/2006 23:37, refers to #79

My interpretation of this is quite simple:

The source code is licensed under zlib. You must notify all recipients of source code or products of the source code (binaries, etc.) if you are using our code or a derived work.

The game media has been licensed to us by individual authors for use in Sauerbraten only (i.e. the soundtrack, many models, etc.), unless where otherwise stated in the content license files; some textures and the like only require you include some text file or send the author an email or whatever.

The master server is a whole other ball of wax. Up till now we have not set any terms of use for it, but we have not given the users any actual rights to it either.

We could, if Aard is serious about this, set up terms of service such that the following are prohibited:

1. Connecting to the master server with anything other than clients compiled from unmodified Sauerbraten release source code.

2. Using information (server addresses) published by the master server to connect to any of those addresses with any program except the unmodified Sauerbraten release source code, or to redistribute the information in any way.

So, it would still be illegal to connect to the master server with a unmodified client, get some ip addresses, then go into your modified client and use those to connect. We could then send you a cease-and-desist. However, we still could not forbid you to set up your own third-party master server so long as you did not use any information published by our master server.

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#82: Re: ..

by eihrul on 03/09/2006 23:40, refers to #81

Oops, 1 should read "clients or servers".

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#83: Re: ..

by StillPeter on 03/09/2006 23:47, refers to #81

That interpretation makes some sense - though it would be a shame if it came to that.

My idea much better ;P - provides those who want tweaks with a way to get them in a central place, albeit without support outside of tweak authors. Also make a fork a lot less likely.

(Plus if it came to that you'd want to include that modifying the sourcecode to compile so it works on your system is okay)

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#84: Re: ..

by eihrul on 03/09/2006 23:53, refers to #82

And to close one last loophole the following:

3. By listing a server with our master server, the operator of the server agrees to pass on the following terms of use to any clients connecting to his server: Only clients compiled from unmodified Sauerbraten release source code may connect to the server.

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#85: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 03/10/2006 00:22, refers to #84

sounds like a good idea eihrul... add it to the docs.

StillPeter... I don't want to support 101 different little hacks to the main game. If something is good, it will get in the main game, otherwise not. The engine is open source such that the tech can be used for other game projects, ones that are wholly independent of the sauerbraten game project.

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#86: Re: ..

by StillPeter on 03/10/2006 00:31, refers to #85

Eh, didn't say you should, one client capable of supporting modded servers and the guys who made the little hacks can support them.

Obviously it's your choice. I'm not going to push the issue, 'though if I may, I could post a more cohesive version to propose later on?

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#87: Re: ..

by kurtis84 on 03/10/2006 00:42, refers to #78

They don't care Aard...I suppose theres no good way of dealing with people like this. I just hope they piss off the wrong person some day, and pay for their actions at some point :/

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#88: Re: ..

by aphid on 03/10/2006 03:21, refers to #78

Well, I'm glad it's nothing personal. :) I'm looking forward to being able to do a proper mod in future.

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#89: ..

by pushplay on 03/10/2006 04:09

If the documentation noted that responding to an official protocol number indicated an official version then z-lib clause 2 probably comes back into effect.

Of course it's not really good enough to be technically correct since no one reads docs and we're not going to hire elawyers and take people to ecourt. I think the first step should always be to explain why their server-side mod isn't in the best interest of the community. People are short-sighted but basically good.

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#90: Re: ..

by Passa on 03/10/2006 06:03, refers to #89

Is there a chance aphid's mod will be added to the official build of Sauerbraten? There is no harm in doing so, I thought it was a great feature to have rankings and such.

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#91: Re: ..

by StillPeter on 03/10/2006 09:39, refers to #89

I'm not sure it would, but the point is moot since the masterserver is going to have a terms of service anyway.

Please explain it, I know that it annoys a few people, but I've never seen how it isn't in the best interest to the community as a whole.

(Really, reading the docs didn't help much in this case, presumably why people keep suggesting changes after telling someone they haven't read it?)

I'm glad someone at least realises I was trying to help.

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#92: Modded version

by Tybalt on 03/10/2006 14:06

Why not add an item in the Protocol,which specify the name of the mod (or blank for the original version of the game) in the Protocol ?
It could prevent misunderstanding ...

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