bots slow downs the game

by epsilon_da on 08/08/2007 05:40, 56 messages, last message: 08/16/2007 18:52, 17247 views, last view: 05/05/2024 14:58

Hi.
I am recently testing sauerbraten engine and cube1 of assaultcube and bot really slow downs the game when bots are on the game.
The engine looks really great, maps and everything. But i can not play due to this issue. Also bots and monsters are not a great piece of art so it should not take so much.
I am running windows xp 512Mb and geforce2 which is enought to play withour problems unreal tournamente 2004 with 3 bots. With no problems.
Has anyone the same problem?

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#37: Re: ..

by ATIRULE on 08/11/2007 05:53, refers to #33

BS NO WAY U COULD RUN DOOM3 ON A GF2 even IF it was overclocked the gf2 only supports dx8 and doom3 need's dx9

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#38: Re: ..

by Passa on 08/11/2007 06:23, refers to #37

He meant Doom II. So you can't write OR read? :P

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#39: ..

by epsilon_da on 08/11/2007 09:13

"Passa"
I have had no problems on low end systems with Sauerbraten. Really, IMO the AI isn't lagging your game, its the actual monster models.
"
Maybe. Is another possible way. But seems more easy just write 4 easy lines and recompile once, than remake models, this is out of my experience.

"SheeEttin"
The only reason i see on retarding botupdate in this way, is to check if My or yours FPS come up in a big scale. If not and FPS still the same, then could be another thing, and the lines could be deleted, If FPS get higher on your systems, or around normal (playable 20fps) with bots, then the problem is clearly in the way which botupdate is being called.
Is just a simple test to see if this issue exist there or not.


"ATIRULE"
BS NO WAY U COULD RUN DOOM3 ON A GF2 even IF it was overclocked the gf2 only supports dx8 and doom3 need's dx9
"
I have installed dx9 in my computer and much oders more older, just becouse it works better than dx8, and let me run some games. If dx9 is not made to support gf2, i am not able to say that. Is not my territory, but i can install doom3 and run it, of course i will get extremelly low fps, but surely not 3 fps.

regards.

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#40: Message censored by administrator

by Drakas on 08/11/2007 14:09, refers to #37

#41: Re: ..

by Passa on 08/11/2007 14:44, refers to #40

.. and just because you install DirectX 9.0c, does not make your GPU support it. The GF2 supports DirectX 7.0. Most apps/games are backwards compatible with other DX versions but some aren't.

"But seems more easy just write 4 easy lines and recompile once, than remake models, this is out of my experience."

Remaking the models won't help. They are currently low poly MD2s that were intended to be used with Quake 2. They can't get much lower in detail, nor will that help greatly.

I'm getting sick of saying this but - the short end of the stick is your system is too old to play Sauerbraten. At least on SP maps. No occlusion query support wouldn't help here either I'm assuming.. those SP maps are huge.

Play AssaultCube, or if you reeeally want Sauerbraten but still want to use that GF2, then play Cube, its the closest you can get.

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#42: ..

by epsilon_da on 08/11/2007 20:42

Thanks Passa.
I have already desided to use another engine for my propose. Derived from OQ3.

But for my nature, i cant stop with a "maybe", so IF you CAN tell me what file is it i will try to do it for my self.

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#43: Re: ..

by ATIRULE on 08/11/2007 21:43, refers to #42

heh so thats whats it was about

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#44: Re: ..

by Quin on 08/12/2007 06:58, refers to #42

You're provided with a free engine to use, it's up to you to get the (C++) skills to use it.

There is no quickstart guide, tutorial, or helpdesk because the code is very straightforward to those who can read it, after all, it was designed that way.

I wish people would stop taking a free project to use strictly for their own purposes, then expecting the developers to walk them through it line by line for free too.

You want something? Then please give something back to us to make Sauerbraten better.

You might even make some contacts who can help you while you're giving back to the community you're taking from.

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#45: ..

by epsilon_da on 08/12/2007 22:09

"
I wish people would stop taking a free project to use strictly for their own purposes, then expecting the developers to walk them through it line by line for free too.
You want something? Then please give something back to us to make Sauerbraten better.
"

That is exactly what i was trying to do. I dont know where do you get the opposite idea.

I can not never do a complete game by my self. I just what to learn things outside of my Studium and my work. I want to develop hard stuff like AI or an easy MapDesigner Tool with multiple features seen in other tools.

"
please give something back to us to make Sauerbraten better.
"
Didnt i say that too much times?
Besides what is an error report if not feedback.
What is trying to fix this issue if not feedback.
I dont even like the kind of game of sauerbraten, but i like the idea of the diversity of kind of mods that can be donde with only just this engine.

I first post to colaborate on this project, but you make me run away.

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#46: Message censored by administrator

by ATIRULE on 08/13/2007 00:35

#47: Re: OMG Delete THIS THREAD

by noerrorsfound! on 08/13/2007 00:47, refers to #46

His posts annoy me less than yours do. :-/

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#48: guys

by Aardappel_ on 08/13/2007 03:01

its not the AI that is slowing his machine down. It is the fact that model rendering is already quite slow (and cannot be made faster short of going to skeletal animation), and on his machine, hardware occlusion culling doesn't work, meaning the problem multiplies (LOTS or unnecessary models rendered in SP).

The only way to fix this is to do some kind non-hardware occlusion culling... you couldn't ask for a more complicated engine feature to make fast. Translation: not going to happen. Especially since it probably affects less than 1% of sauer users, and dying out rapidly.

So no, you can't play sauer unless you upgrade, and the reason ut2k4 doesn't have that problem is because it uses a software based occlusion system. We don't have the resources to change that, nor would we want to if we did.

And yes, based purely on rendering features, sauer is WAY ahead of ut2k4 on the engine ladder. ut2k4 is a souped up DX7 level engine (akin to quake 3), the only reason it still looks very good is that it was made with a large team of professional artists, with huge poly and texture res budgets.

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#49: Re: ..

by Quin on 08/13/2007 06:35, refers to #45

It isn't about making you run away, rather about having a certain amount of respect.

People pick up Sauerbraten and try to modify it without any previous C++/programming experience. They then come here expecting developers to point them to line numbers and explain what pieces of code mean/do.

All they really need to do is stop wasting the developers time with questions that could be easily answered by anyone with the smallest amount of C/C++ knowledge, and actually invest some time in learning C++ for themselves.

Otherwise, you're like the other 90% of internet users, zapping time away from someone who has actually done the hard work of learning it all to begin with.

So please, for heavens and our own sake. Do some research, learn how to code, use the internet for what it is: A vast repository of freely available information, there to help you better yourself.

Respect the time of others who have so graciously donated their efforts and skills to this project. Everything I've learned about coding has come from nowhere else other than the internet, so it isn't impossible.

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#50: Re: ..

by Drakas on 08/14/2007 16:19, refers to #49

The code is really easy to read even if you don't understand C++. It's the case of actually bothering to browse through source and understanding.

Only some bits in the sourcecode (that are perhaps not as semantic) are confusing to me.

But overall - man - it's so easy to do stuff with the source and learn it... ;-)

Hey Quin. Don't get angry... Just show the person this: http://www.slash7.com/pages.

Oh, Aard, thanks for explaning this too, I think that this will hopefully make people understand why Sauer does not look as good as commercial [3 generations behind] games. I think that someone should either explain it in docs (if not present already) and in the Wiki.

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#51: Re: ..

by Quin on 08/15/2007 01:25, refers to #50

I apologise if I come across as being angry, just trying to point something out and explain it properly.

While you don't need C++ experience specifically (I didn't), some form of programming (and to some degree, scripting) knowledge is required.

The same could be said for any other moddable game, really. The difference being, how it is accomplished. We have such power over this engine, because we have the raw code. That makes it somewhat unique in the modding arena.

But in the end, my original point was that this isn't a forum for teaching people how to code, there are plenty of websites on the internet that'll help you do that, if you spend the time trying to learn instead of leech.

What's the saying? "Teach a man to fish.."

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#52: Re: ..

by noerrorsfound! on 08/15/2007 03:21, refers to #51

http://devmaster.net/
http://gamedev.net/
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/

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#53: Re: ..

by noerrorsfound! on 08/15/2007 03:22, refers to #52

I forgot to put "such as" in there. This isn't a response to you but to the "there are plenty of other sites out there" part of the message.

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#54: Re: guys

by shadow,516 on 08/15/2007 06:43, refers to #48

Listen to Aard, he's the guy that wrote this game (from scratch) after all. The guy has a PhD in computer science, and if he says that rendering is slow because we don't have skeletal models, then I think that's a DAMN good reason for somebody to learn MAX (or port his model exporter to blender).

This one's open to both artists and coders, either learn max, or offer to convert the code. (Unfortunately, I cannot do either, I'm just a lowly mapper - and wouldn't even be that if it wasn't so damn easy)

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#55: Re: guys

by CC_machine[UbuntuGotWipedByAccident-Reinstalled] on 08/16/2007 10:49, refers to #54

amen. sauer makes content creation rediculiously easy :p

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#56: Re: guys

by noerrorsfound! on 08/16/2007 18:52, refers to #55

http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/ makes spelling easy! Beware of others' pet peeves, for they can be the cause of your death.

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