Team killing

by sal on 12/24/2006 15:53, 68 messages, last message: 01/27/2007 11:15, 14961 views, last view: 05/04/2024 15:08

Every time I play a multiplayer game, I always seem to get players (mostly unnamed) fragging me, when we are on the same team. I am not the only person affected by this, and I am sure you know just how frustrating it is.

Is it possible to do one of the following in Sauerbraten?

1. Put a notice at the start of a multiplayer game to say something along the lines of "The blue players are on your team. Red is your enemy."

2. (This may already be possible) Allow admins of servers to enter their own message which appears at the start of every multiplayer game. This would allow them to put a notice saying what they want, perhaps giving the link to their website, and more importantly, the ONLY SHOOT RED message.

I think the message needs to be big, across the screen. It only needs to be displayed for a couple of seconds, though of course that's my personal choice.

---

While posting, I have thought of another idea, though I am sure it will split some people. Democratic kicking.

If a player continues to team-kill, or is a general negative presence (perhaps trolling, flaming, etc) there should be some way to remove them from the game. A democratic kick function would be ideal. For example, go in to the menu, choose who should be kicked, and wait for votes. Other players can vote for or against, and the offending player will either stay or go. It should not wait for every player to vote, since some people won't bother. Similarly, if unnamed can't even change their name, then they won't be able to work out how to vote. I don't know the maths, but it should be possible to work out what percentage is needed without everyone voting.

Just a couple of ideas.

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#49: ..

by Drakas on 01/10/2007 17:18

Exactly, Rasputin. If you have a game with such unrealism, you will eventually have a noob fest - a noob takes a rocket launcher (or grenades), gets the quad, and just shoots where most people are (well, to kill enemies only) and their teammates don't die. Well, how stupid would that be?:>

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#50: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 01/10/2007 20:52, refers to #49

Hence the suggestion of self-damage. Unrealistic, but makes the punishment for killing teammates direct, proportional, and clear.

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#51: Re: ..

by {LiD}CC_machine on 01/11/2007 00:14, refers to #50

well, we need a way to get to the n00bs...
how about making the client exit the game to desktop after say.. 5 teamkills in a minute or so? xD (or maybe be kicked but not banned from the server side?)

have an error message saying \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"do not kill teammates (blue)!\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" or something...

while the direct feedback is a nice idea, it just leaves so many other problems like abuse from hackers/coders, rockets into crowded spaces to just get allies, etc.

9x7..........? *panics*

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#52: ..

by {LiD}CC_machine on 01/11/2007 00:14

and i meant just to get enemys*

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#53: ..

by 1veedo on 01/13/2007 19:06

____________________________
| Enter your name: _________
|
| Do NOT shoot BLUE players!
|
| [OK]
|___________________________

You should turn it into a positive statement. Psychology 101 you can only do positive actions and thus your brain reacts a lot better to positive commands. For instance instead of saying \"dont trip over the curb\" it\'s a lot better to say \"step over the curb\" or \"look out for the curb.\" If you just say \"dont trip over it\" your brain has to rephrase it to something that it can do -- and it can only perform positive actions.

Giving the negative form of that command can do two things: 1) It slows down how fast you think, 2) If you fail to (most of the time unconsciously) rethink the statement you\'ll end up more likely to trip, despite being warned about it.

Instead of saying \"Do NOT shoot BLUE players!\" it should read something like \"Shoot RED players!\" or maybe spiff it somehow \"RED players are your enemy!\"

Saying \"Do not shoot blue players\" implies a sort of psychological reactance. Even if you dont realize it, the statement sounds sour (because you detect resistance in it). Psychological reactance theory is basically the tendency for people to react against any form of restriction on their freedoms. It is the cause of the American Revolution, the fall of Soviet Russia, and the reason why kids during certain ages (early and late teens,toddlers*) are so rebellious.

It demonstrates a resistance on two sides: one is the people who are annoyed by tkers. The other is the people who are annooyed by those people who are annoyed by tkers (ie, the tkers themselves).

When a new person joins they\'ll be more likely to see a freedom (because tkers exist, you\'re obviously allowed to do it) and a restriction on that freedom (dont shoot blue people). If stated \"shoot reds\" you bypass this because you\'re not explicitly saying \"dont shoot blues.\" This then has the effect of removing the sour tone from the statement because you can no longer detect resistance from it.


*This works both ways -- teens rebel against what their parents say which in tern angers the parents because parents see being able to tell their kids what to do as one of their freedoms (or even rights). You can see how the atmosphere turns bad and creates a sort of positive feedback chain -- both parties react more and more against each other.

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#54: ..

by {LiD}CC_machine on 01/14/2007 16:40

actually, i agree with the adding on respawn time idea. Everytime you TK, make the game tell you "You have killed a teammate, 10 seconds added to next respawn time.." for example.

also, add a message above the crosshair if you have an ally in your sights, saying "SHOOT RED ONLY, BLUE ARE ALLIES" or something.

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#55: Well... I am kinda new to Sauerbraten...

by Monkeyfan31 on 01/14/2007 19:08

Well I am new to Sauerbraten (Dled it last night), and I think that the problem isn't the TKer's, for a lot of people, it is hard to make a distinction between allies and enemies. Maybe, if the models were changed, it would be easier (like, in Halo, the red team is VERY easy to make a distinction from, if you are on either the blue or red team. So, if you changed the player model in multi-player mode for the enemy AND ally team, it would be easier. (also, if you made it so that there were red and blue teams, instead of allies are blue, enemies are red) it would be alot easier.

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#56: Re: ..

by shadow,516 on 01/14/2007 19:40, refers to #54

Do what AC does, have the cross hair change to a "no shoot" symbol when hovering over an ally.

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#57: ..

by SheeEttin on 01/14/2007 22:02

On the democratic voting thing, the game America's Army has a "votekick" system, where if one player starts a votekick, other players may hit F6 to concur. A majority vote will kick the player.

This is possible to use, no?

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#58: Re: Well... I am kinda new to Sauerbraten...

by Drakas on 01/15/2007 07:42, refers to #55

erm, in Sauer there's red and blue. Very easy to make a distinction. in AC (wrong forum this is) - it is very hard.

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#59: Re: Well... I am kinda new to Sauerbraten...

by Passa on 01/15/2007 07:57, refers to #58

After playing heaps though, you'll tend to remember the models and what team they represent (sorta like Counter-Strike, which though is more blatantly obvious).

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#60: Re: Well... I am kinda new to Sauerbraten...

by Drakas on 01/15/2007 09:17, refers to #59

Yeah, start to getting better ;) AC should have a less sensitive marker (i mean, if you point near a person, the red marker should show instead of having to point directly at them, which is the time you already fired a bullet.

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#61: Re: Well... I am kinda new to Sauerbraten...

by Passa on 01/15/2007 12:49, refers to #60

Imagine the difficulty in coding that :/

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#62: Re: Well... I am kinda new to Sauerbraten...

by Pxtl on 01/15/2007 14:57, refers to #61

Pretty simple to me - assuming they're tracing to the object (not to the polygons), I'd just have a larger, invisible, giant object that surrounds the player and the aimtrace traces to that. Wouldn't be perfect (since the angular tolerance would inversely correlate with distance) but it would work.

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#63: Re: Well... I am kinda new to Sauerbraten...

by Drakas on 01/15/2007 16:28, refers to #61

Hehe ;) difficult but very beneficial though!

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#64: ..

by GNU Jeffz on 01/19/2007 06:32

Keeping it the same as it is now would be ideal.

Team kills can be accidental, which adds to the realism, be careful where you shoot and how.

Using a rocket to kill one foe when there are 6 friends right next to him might be unwise, people usually learn this and make smarter decisions.

If someone accidentally kills me they apologise and I accept their apology and vice versa.

I think it works quite well.

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#65: Re: ..

by SanHolo on 01/19/2007 11:25, refers to #64

Yes, the HANDLING can stay as it is. But a much much bigger/brighter/more bothering notification should be displayed. You and me, we know when we hit a TM and apologize, but some unnameds just keep fragging teammates because they don't see that they did something wrong.

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#66: Re: wer lesen kann ist klar im Vorteil

by MeatROme on 01/19/2007 11:36, refers to #65

Woe o' woe ... illiterate imbecile insurgants!

I did see a guy on AC once - he switched sides sometime mid-match ... just kept standing in the CLA camp popping off his now-teammates ...
but that game now has a _ B I G _ notice telling you off when TK'ing, but then again it always had a "forbidden"-crosshair when hovering over teammates and that doesn't seem to help either :-P

There's just nothing you can do - except use the mastermode ;)

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#67: ..

by Passa on 01/27/2007 02:54

I've just been ignoring this whole topic, mainly because TKing really isn't a problem for me in Sauerbraten (because the most popular modes aren't teamplay ones) but in ActionCube.. geez.. I started up with ActionCube again after having a break from it for a while, and its just littered with intentional TKers (just like Sauerbraten's capture mode is).

In both games, there really needs to be an additional punishment other than -1 points, and maybe autokick after X number of teamkills.

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#68: Should be Optional

by Morosoph on 01/27/2007 11:15

Since another solution is to make the server private.

Perhaps a "penalty" instruction available to the master, maybe with two or three arguments, eg:

penalty s p
s = [0] or 1 (auto-suicide, 0 default)
p = [0] 1/100ths of a second penalty per team damage done on next respawn.

If penalties show in the server view, the player can seek or avoid servers accordingly.

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