Team killing

by sal on 12/24/2006 15:53, 68 messages, last message: 01/27/2007 11:15, 15009 views, last view: 05/25/2024 06:20

Every time I play a multiplayer game, I always seem to get players (mostly unnamed) fragging me, when we are on the same team. I am not the only person affected by this, and I am sure you know just how frustrating it is.

Is it possible to do one of the following in Sauerbraten?

1. Put a notice at the start of a multiplayer game to say something along the lines of "The blue players are on your team. Red is your enemy."

2. (This may already be possible) Allow admins of servers to enter their own message which appears at the start of every multiplayer game. This would allow them to put a notice saying what they want, perhaps giving the link to their website, and more importantly, the ONLY SHOOT RED message.

I think the message needs to be big, across the screen. It only needs to be displayed for a couple of seconds, though of course that's my personal choice.

---

While posting, I have thought of another idea, though I am sure it will split some people. Democratic kicking.

If a player continues to team-kill, or is a general negative presence (perhaps trolling, flaming, etc) there should be some way to remove them from the game. A democratic kick function would be ideal. For example, go in to the menu, choose who should be kicked, and wait for votes. Other players can vote for or against, and the offending player will either stay or go. It should not wait for every player to vote, since some people won't bother. Similarly, if unnamed can't even change their name, then they won't be able to work out how to vote. I don't know the maths, but it should be possible to work out what percentage is needed without everyone voting.

Just a couple of ideas.

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#29: Statistics

by Rasputin [NOR] on 01/05/2007 13:06

Why not include teamkilling in the statistics? Just as an extra annoyance, or selfpride punishment =)

"32 frags in total, of which 5 are teamkills"...or something like that.

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#30: Better Still

by Morosoph on 01/05/2007 13:35

"12 frags in total, 17 enemy kills minus 5 team kills".

A delay would make a better game, IMO, as it still doesn't kill strategy or overly punish accidents, and learning is best done as a feedback process with immediate feedback. In fact, the way that we do long-term feedback is that we use psychological tricks to make them immediate.

So how about this: server side, a penalty for teamkills can be instituted, possibly with a kill component (in seconds) and a damage component (in hundredths), thus 5 seconds plus 0.05 per point of damage is a moderate punishment, and 1s + 0.00pp is more like feedback.

With different policies on different servers, we can let the market sort it out.

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#31: Re: Better Still

by Drakas on 01/05/2007 16:02, refers to #30

Load of crap.


Resputin's idea of statistics is a perfect one. Also displaying that you killed a teammate would do better than lot of complex punishing crap. You accidentaly shoot your teammate with rl, and your team is to lose even more because you make a mistake? no.

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#32: I reiterate

by Pxtl on 01/05/2007 17:33

As I said, the only reason that shooting a teammate causes damage is realism. Why should YOU pay for your teammate's mistake? Because it's realistic? This is *Sauer*. Fsck realism.

Eliminate teamdamage - if you want to make people avoid shooting teammates, make team damage be self-damage. Discourage TKing DIRECTLY.

Yes, you may have griefers jumping into teammate's line of fire, but that's a much smaller problem then TKing - and any positive damage means TKing for sport is possible.

Team damage = self damage is the simplest solution.

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#33: ..

by makkE on 01/05/2007 18:20

Why not turn friendly fire off completely?
Wouldn´t that be more fun anyways?

Didn´t all the other dm games have friendly fire off anyways? The classics I mean.

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#34: Re: ..

by SanHolo on 01/05/2007 19:09, refers to #33

Turning FF off would result in a massive Fire-at-will. No thinking, no tactics, just shooting anything red. No thanks, that's lame.

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#35: Re: I reiterate

by {LiD}CC_machine on 01/05/2007 19:12, refers to #32

wow. *me worships the idea*
seriously, that would be great! no TKers at all, period! actually, hacked clients would be easy to spot, and servers could be programmed to automatically kick TKers that succeed in killed teammates xD

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#36: ..

by {LiD}CC_machine on 01/05/2007 19:24

oh and about hackers trying to exploit this by making other clients believe all players are on their team, another server check could kick them aswell.

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#37: Re: ..

by Drakas on 01/06/2007 00:01, refers to #34

totally agree with SanHolo. I don't want, personally, to be the great game Sauer yet another pointless FPS that is concentrated on how newbies would find it. I mean - most games concentrate on the new players instead of the hardcore players. Only way to better skills is through harder gameplay, which is what Sauerbraten presents.

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#38: Server Policy

by Morosoph on 01/06/2007 02:45

Respawn punishment set by master. Maybe just per point inflicted. Can be zero.

0.01s per point of damage is enough feedback for accidental teamkillers to learn, but not for deliberates/indiscriminates, IMO, but could raise the game enough to be worth taking the extra second or so on a teamkill.

The advantage with server policy is that the players decide (supply and demand) what they want. The tradeoff (TKers go elsewhere or learn faster) and the occasional extra delay can be weighed together.

Suffering damage yourself is silly. Sauer isn't realistic, but that's just too unrealistic, and decreases immersion, IMO.

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#39: Re: Server Policy

by UKRAdam on 01/06/2007 16:08, refers to #38

I play Cube for the fun of it, and TeamKilling doesen\\\'t really effect me when I play.

Basicly, this is because if someone keeps TKing me, or begins throwing abuse at other players or whatever, i\\\'ll kill them, weather they\\\'re on my team or not.

BUT, something I really think should happen, and also should be optional, is a respawn penalty. For example, if you TeamKill someone, next time you spawn it takes <whatever> seconds.

This might actully allow us to get on with the game, so the TKer / Abuser doesen\\\'t spawn instantly and I have to waste another frag killing him again. :P

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#40: ..

by Destroyer] on 01/08/2007 18:08

I think turning friendly fire off by default will be great

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#41: FF

by osbios_PlzChangeToPWLogin on 01/08/2007 18:53

The problem are the real noobs.
And the question is: How can we tell this guys that there are shooting teammates.

My suggestion is a "not to small" Text on the Screen every time somebody hit a teammate. Like: "Be carefully not to shoot teammates!"

Btw: I never saw teamkillers on the servers (the unsocial people, not the noobs).

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#42: ..

by Destroyer] on 01/08/2007 18:58

Just look on ActionCube you can become crazy, all the ******* noobs who just fight you or ... kill you ... ******* noobs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you become easy crazy they cant look what their crosshair become ... i think disable the FF is the solution, an option to disable it on the server will be very useful !!!

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#43: FF

by Destroyer] on 01/08/2007 19:01

FF can be useful not only for HELL noobs but for "unsocial people" who fight allies for fun to !

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#44: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 01/08/2007 19:52, refers to #34

That's why I think that direct damage feedback is the best solution. Friendly-fire hurts the person who made the mistake. No firefest, and no TKing.

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#45: ..

by Destroyer] on 01/08/2007 20:47

extrem solution

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#46: Unreal

by Morosoph on 01/08/2007 22:09

Reverse-applying damage should only happen if the game has magic, otherwise it's simply too unreal. If you do have reverse-applying damage, it should still apply to the victim, since they'd expect to be vulnerable to the ammo that they see flying about.

To me, reverse applying damage diminshes the game too much in its /necessary/ realism. This is why I favour the payment in respawn time at the next spawn /only/.

Normal respawn, penalty per team-kill, and penalty per team-damage could all be adjustable on each server, giving the player a chance to decide which balance they are happiest with, and also giving the chance to react to team-killers by changing the penalty in a game only when it starts to become a problem. Indeed, it could revert to the default (zero?) when the last player disconnects.

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#47: Friendly-fire

by Rasputin [NOR] on 01/10/2007 12:11

Friendly-fire is just one of the hazards of Sauer. If players on the same team can't kill each other, the whole game will be just a fragfest without any intelligence at all.

Display a TK-warning in big letters on the screen instantly, and show TK in stats at game end. People will soon start to ask for stats for TK when someone applies for membership in a clan and so on.

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#48: Friendly-fire part deux

by Rasputin [NOR] on 01/10/2007 12:19

... I usually find that TK stops when I tell them "ONLY SHOOT RED".

I have binded that phrase (along with "Sorry =)"). Just hit that key a couple of times when a teammate kills you.

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