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The way newcomers join Sauerbraten's gameplay

by suicizer01 on 04/07/2011 23:13, 56 messages, last message: 10/26/2011 07:20, 14562 views, last view: 06/17/2024 02:19

After I played Sauerbraten frequently for a while again, I noticed that most servers (with some people playing on it) are having insta on it, or worse, an extension of it (like instateam, instactf, etc).
I've noticed this is the set up of servers in sauerbraten, today:
- 1 Server wich has no maprotation at all, exept instateam venice.
- 1 Server wich is always set on instactf, but gladly some maprotation in it, even tough the same maps get often played over and over again by voting.
- 1 Server wich contains regen capture and also some maprotation. Because most current beginning players don't know anything about the voting system at all, less maps get reloaded after the last one again.

The rest of the servers are coopedit, duels or just not that important to the subject.

When your a newcomer, you often join the server wich instateam venice first.
Why? Since it's the first one on the list, because contains highest ammount of players.
This is actually a very bad thing, since most of those newcomers aren't used to such fast but simple gameplay. Because of that, they get killed a lot of times, while they barely even had time to move (since they don't know the map either).
This creates a lot of negative toughts to Sauerbraten, while it shouldn't be like that.
This counts for the 2 other modes as well, but way less.

Deathmatch somehow gets your in shape quicker than team-based modes and learns you the game way faster.
Why? Probabaly because you aren't able to "lift" with your teammate, wich could be better than you (especially when your new to sauerbraten).

Of course, when newcomers would join huge insta matches, where it's just all vs all on a nice map, they get killed often. But at least they get a way more better image about sauerbraten, that's it not only a game wich has a flawless, outdated campmap as 1st map on the 1st ranked server.

To all (old) players, I hope you remember the time you started, wich probably was when deathmatch was still ruling sauerbraten and when the frags were really mattering (like 3 years ago or even more).

I would suggest to everyone wich runs a server, do newcomers a favor and don't put instateam venice as default mode and map. They aren't waiting for that...


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#13: ..

by baby~rabbit on 04/12/2011 12:46

Sadly Sauerbraten isn't well known enough to likely be a newcomers first ever FPS. Thus i'd hope that the concepts of moving, aiming, and firing are fairly universal. Run&gun, you shoot stuff and die, etc.

If people don't like a server or are confused by a gamemode then surely they just try another one? Additionally there was only one venice server last time I looked, and it wasn't at the top of the browser list either.

As an "old" player, yes I remember the early days where there was a fine art in knowing which weapon to use in which situation. It was a random mess with no team spirit, you vs everyone else, very little tactics - what was the question again?

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#14: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 04/12/2011 15:36, refers to #13

Yes and that random mess, was great!
It completly fits to sauerbraten!
This game is becoming more and more some kind of fast and simple team fortress 2 :S.

It's some kind of discussion, no question at all :P.

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#15: Re: ..

by Zorg on 04/13/2011 00:26, refers to #13

I disagree.
- Sauerbraten was my first FPS.
- I think if people are confused by a gamemode, chances are they get tired of the game (especially if there is only 1 gamemode played on the servers)
- As an old player I think it was anything but a random mess back then. I rather think today it is messed up as the newcomers don't know what to do and half of the good players don't play the mode but play for the frags instead.

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#16: Bot matches

by AlternateLives on 04/13/2011 18:35

I started Sauer using the "Bot Match" feature, and got used to just about all of the game modes before I ever linked to a server. what's stopping a new player from doing this instead of hitting the servers?

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#17: ...

by Skidborg on 04/15/2011 22:44

I think what keeps the Venice server at the top of the list is that it is playing on a large map with an awesome variety of terrain. If we want to dislodge it, we need to build better maps that have all the same features. Easier said than done, but instead of blaming the server that is succeeding, maybe we should look at what the other ones are doing wrong.

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#18: Re: ...

by |ice|sub-zero|L on 04/17/2011 02:55, refers to #17

What are you? Dense? The reason the map is such a big hit is because its the map noobs get to camp on, it has nothing to do with the layout, its just a shit map, and needs to be removed from sauer. it hasn't fit Sauerbraten's game-play for a long ass time, and it never will unless eihrul makes the game a less fast FPS game, which of course is unlikely.

Skid, here's a small list of things about it that makes it a big hit:
1. Very tight, less movement, makes people easy to hit.
2. There is a lot of tiny windows that face the spawn places that also hide the shooters, makes for easy spawn killing.
3. Sadistically, the spawns are all in the open areas and all face out somewhere where people can get behind them and shoot them or use the chainsaw.

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#19: ..

by Papriko on 04/17/2011 17:34

Agreed. "an awesome variety of terrain" is funny. The terrain is in the case of Venice just a bunch of houses with some water here and there.
Sub-Zero pointed it out very well. With all the windows, the narrow paths and the poor placement of spawns, it represents a wonderful place for campers.

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#20: !!

by 2r on 04/17/2011 20:46

Finally someone with the same thoughts as me! yes i would love it if people would play more normal modes like FFA or normal CTF. i am very angry. i leave sauerbaten for a few years, come back and what am i greeted with? iCTF and Regen Capture? what has happened to the community? i Think the only solution is to gather up huge parties to play on FFA or CTF so that when newcomers join they see those servers instead of the garbage people are playing today!

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#21: Re: !!

by Zorg on 04/18/2011 09:12, refers to #20

+1

A lot of people seem to be prefering the ffa/effic/CTF/capture modes. So instead of whining in the face of 'insta everywhere', we should join the servers with the gamemodes we like, even if there are only 2 or 3 players on. Maybe one more player is sufficient to populate the server. Or we might even join an empty server and wait until someone comes by. And of course those who are on IRC can shout a "anybody up for classic capture/effic-CTF/ffa/...? => server 666.666.6.6" in the channels.

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#22: Re: !!

by 2r on 04/18/2011 18:20, refers to #21

... most people do prefer insta.. and i am not talking about the intelligent people of the community website and IRC, i am talking about the idiots who join and immediatly go play instagib. sadly this IS the majority of players

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#23: ..

by wolfric on 04/26/2011 15:29

I definitely agree with "less insta more ctf or efficiency" etc.

I'm just tired of insta and capture. ffa, teamplay, efficiency or any of those combined with capture would be fun.

If you want, I've got a server hosted here wolfric.dyndns.info You can claim master and play to your hearts content. I normally set up a game of efficiency there but i don't any big games with more than a few players.

capture as well is horrible. You generally spent your time firing a single grenade and having it out with pistols. You die too fast to ever enjoy more than a couple of shots with a random weapon.

On the other hand i actually really enjoy the venice server and i don't see anything wrong with it. I don't spawn kill, camp or go to the roofs to sniper people. I like the fact that once i die i can get straight back into the game without having to look much for people to kill. I also think the place looks amazing. It looks like a lot of time was put into building it.


On an offnote, how DO the servers get sorted? I would have thought they should be sorted by ping.

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#24: Re: ..

by wolfric on 04/26/2011 15:30, refers to #23

combined with ctf not capture sorry

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#25: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 04/26/2011 16:45, refers to #24

You forgot there is classic capture and regen capture...
The mode wich you were subscribing, it was regencapture, instead of the classic one.

If you ever played that mode, you would find out capture was once based on a combination of tactics (arena) and teamplay, because of the limited ammo spawn, but still being able to pick up a quad, healthboost, armour and/or health...

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#26: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 04/26/2011 16:50, refers to #23

Servers seem to get sorted by the ammount of players, if there are any players on it.
If there aren't any players on certain servers or the ammount is equal, it get sorted by ping.

So for short:
1st - Playerammmount
2nd - Ping

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#27: ..

by Ronald_Reagan on 05/04/2011 08:53

Since I\'m not a Sauer player (I come from AC land) I haven\'t read all of the text on this page, except for the first post.
However, I know that I rarely play Sauer because of all the modes I see are insta and regen, and sometimes coop. I am not exaggerating when I say that I have never seen anyone of the other wonderful modes Sauer has built into it. I have stopped playing because of the lack of variety.
Thus I rarely play Sauer anymore, which is a pity because I really like it otherwise.

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#28: Something that might help

by tman elite on 05/07/2011 05:14

Part of the problem is that there are so many empty servers that the list is overwhelming, and people only bother to look at the top few maps. Everything else is just considered useless clutter.

I know it's not a solution, but I think it could help if the map list could be filtered and sorted based on different criteria. Players could sort by number of players, game mode (alphabetical), map (alphabetical), ping, and server name. There could also be filters to exclude empty servers, full servers, locked servers, coop servers, etc from the list, to make it easier to look through.

The reason I believe this would help is most people would have the empty server filter on, so that they would only be looking at one page of servers instead of 10+ pages. If the coop and locked server filters on on, this list gets even smaller. So if someone decides they don't like what is being played, they can host their own server or join an empty one and suddenly it shows up on everyone's server list. It wouldn't be lumped with the clutter, like it is now.

It doesn't solve the problem, but it might help get people to start playing the old game modes some more. And even if it doesn't, it's still a nice feature to have, right?

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#29: Re: Something that might help

by Zorg on 05/07/2011 10:25, refers to #28

+1

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#30: Re: Something that might help

by Zamwa on 06/08/2011 20:32, refers to #28

+l

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#31: ..

by Drekow on 06/08/2011 21:12

Another problems, i hope enought related, is that sauerbraten works well on small maps an 6 to 10 players, most mode, infact, are played 3vs3 or 4vs4, so the online gameplay does not fit "so much" with what sauerbraten (for me) is.

In the opposite we have a loads of very big maps or very old ones and servers defaulted to 20 players.

When i started playing this game i used to join on calmpark (mode is not an option for newcomes) cause it have a cap of 14 players (so 7vs7 max) and fortunaty it was/is well mastered to protect who really wants to play from cheaters.
I think that without that server wasn't here now.

And yes we need a better serverlist, and a better scoreboard... and possibility to download new maps from server, to have a better variation in map rotation... :D

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#32: ..

by HeWhoPwnsYou on 06/09/2011 04:37

I have been playing for a few years and played the original cube before sauer. After playing the original cube i took a break for a while. Then i found sauer and loved it. That was 3 years ago.

I like all the game modes within sauer but my favorites are capture(with or without regen), FFA, iCtf, and coop edit. Some of the other game modes i dont really quite enjoy. Its just a matter of personal preference. I used to love Venice back when only 15-20 people played at a time and they werent spawn-campers they actually knew what they were doing (elv13, VR1, etc).

But now Venice just flat out sucks. Yes i can still get on and get 120+ frags but the people are all worthless trolls and spawncampers.

The old game modes that arent played very much can be fun, but i would like to play them with more people, not just 2v2 or whatever. If i could get a group(a 8by8 game) to play Capture i would love it. But its probably not going to happen very often. And i find it fun to just hop on Nooblounge say hi to some friends and frag.

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