Zlib License?

by c0rdawg on 09/11/2006 23:30, 77 messages, last message: 09/17/2006 03:03, 24403 views, last view: 05/18/2024 16:49

I'm sorry but I don't have a very good understanding of this Zlib License. Just today someone said that I was breaking the license. I have edited the sauerbraten server's source and recompiled it to add some features that it currently is lacking, but in no way do I ever claim that I created sauerbraten, and I haven't released the source so I can't be implying that the source code is mine. Have I done anything wrong?

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#38: Re: Ok

by conor1 on 09/13/2006 05:40, refers to #35

How about not, just don\'t take it down, if it isn\'t violating the zLib liscence then don\'t take it down, i would ignore these people (even though i know they MADE the game) and keep my server up!


Who the fuck cars, I like the death streak thing, I remember when you came into a server and asked me to kill you three times, to see if it did anything, and then it said i am on a kill streak with 3 kills, and I thought that was really cool.



So when, WHEN, did a cool modification that doesn\'t affect gameplay except for some text that goes away in 1 minute cause people to freak out and tell that person to stop it, why?


What is the big deal here?

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#39: well

by c0rdawg on 09/13/2006 05:46

Mostly because I'm not seperating my modification from the actual game, and I was using the master server list which isn't mine.

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#40: Re: well

by conor1 on 09/13/2006 06:09, refers to #39

So you are just going to give up.


Give up.


Great job people, I am going to start a server and make these modifications, go ahead block my server, wahetever.


...

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#41: its not giving up

by c0rdawg on 09/13/2006 06:13

It's not as much giving up as following the wishes of the developers. As I understood it, I might be able to have my server if it wasn't on the master server list, but then I wouldn't get nearly as many people, so I decided the best thing to do would just be to turn off the server. Maybe some other day I'll turn it back on and get it completely away from the unmodded game...

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#42: Re: its not giving up

by conor1 on 09/13/2006 06:17, refers to #41

WEll, i am going to start a server and have it have all that death streak stuff.

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#43: Re: its not giving up

by c0rdawg on 09/13/2006 06:19, refers to #42

You're probably not going to get much support, but have fun...

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#44: Modified Servers

by pushplay on 09/13/2006 07:05

Requiring custom clients whose only modification is the protocol number to play on servers with minor changes to functionality isn't elegant. No one wants to have to restart the game to change servers, and there's nothing attractive about a bunch of identical clients cluttering up the bin folder. Servers with additional or experimental functionality aren't undesirable in and of themselves. I like to see people experiment even if most of them will suck.

The better solution is for the master server list to state which servers are pure and which have been modified and maybe a brief description of what the modification is. Now of course there's no way to force the server to be honest about these things, but that's no different from the situation now. The majority of people creating modified servers will do so out of good will to the community, and will want to be honest about these changes and even see a good description as a way to draw traffic.

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#45: Re: Modified Servers

by rancor on 09/13/2006 07:19, refers to #44

That is exactly what needs to happen. Thank you pushplay.

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#46: ..

by Passa on 09/13/2006 08:56

the mod is off my server too, however I will be keeping my server on, ive just updated it to the water edition :)

anywho, alls well that ends well :)

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#47: Re: Modified Servers

by StillPeter on 09/13/2006 08:58, refers to #44

Yes, exactly. Really, that\\\'s the solution that has been offered and sneered at for whatever reason.

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#48: Re: Modified Servers

by Passa on 09/13/2006 09:04, refers to #47

StillPeter, no offense, but I feel you dont know enough about this discussion to participate.

No-one has \'sneered\' at the idea, but it just isnt practical anyway, and really no matter what it would still be breaking the zlib license.

LOL i got 8+3 wrong >_>

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#49: ..

by StillPeter on 09/13/2006 09:15

I got 9+7 wrong too, earlier, just woken up.

Yes I do know enough about the discussion, I brought the thing up and suggested much the same (but went a little further) earlier in the last release's thread with the aphid debacle.

The idea was sneered at, the whole idea of *gasp* server modifications was sneered at. At the time, Aard was arguing that it broke the zlib license for goodness sake just like you are now. Obviously, he seems to have realised this isn't the case as you're the only one claiming the same now.

So really, you probably don't know enough about it.

Ethics-wise, I think its unethical for Aard to admonish people for fucking with his "open source" game. It IS open source (without scare quotes) and people 'fucking with it' lead to improvements he keeps. Improvements and some less useful changes he doesn't keep too, which is his prerogative of course.

I don't think reason has a chance here to actually change the masterserver policy, at least not yet. I think it will in time.

It'll help when people stop claiming it breaks the license.

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#50: How about....

by shadow516 (school) on 09/13/2006 17:38, refers to #50

the master server split into vanilla and modded servers. The server would send a command line arg to the master, telling it that it is a mod, and there would be a seperate menu in sauer to go to the modded servers.

just a thought ^_^

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#51: Re: How about....

by StillPeter on 09/13/2006 21:46, refers to #51

Plus, with luck, it would alleviate official servers from players who mod, and mean there's a wider test-bed which would hopefully leave code tested better for subsequent submission to the sauerbraten code proper.

I mean, I'd prefer it on the main masterserver, but a compromise is more than welcome.

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#52: multiverse-masterserver

by Gilt__ on 09/13/2006 22:34

the masterserver is a service provided to people who want to play the unmodded game.

if you want to host a 'multiverse-masterserver' where modded clients can connect, you are totally free and welcome to do so.

there is absolutely no reason why a normal and modded server would need to be connected to the same master server. in fact there is absolutely no reason they should be; a normal client will not want to see the modded server list, and vice-versa.

opensource is about empowering people to add the shit that they want. it's not about whining that other people aren't serving your whims.

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#53: Re: multiverse-masterserver

by Passa on 09/13/2006 23:07, refers to #52

Girls, please stop fighting, discussion is over already :P

Splitting the masterserver list isnt practical and can be confusing for newbs etc.

c0rdawg turned his server off, so I think no more discussion is needed.

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#54: Re: multiverse-masterserver

by StillPeter on 09/14/2006 00:14, refers to #53

<Insert mandatory jibe>

Older protocol is just as confusing to newbies as modded server.

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#55: Re: multiverse-masterserver

by StillPeter on 09/14/2006 00:18, refers to #52

Then why not provide a service that is for people who want to play with neat-o server script thingies? Absolutely no reason at all, apart from the reasons put forth in this thread, and a normal client probably won't particularly want to see older protocol.

Open Source is about ... freedom, choice, and openness. Even the choice to whine.

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#56: ..

by makkE on 09/14/2006 00:58

"Open Source is about ... freedom, choice, and openness. Even the choice to whine."

Jupp, exactly, and the devs choice is: We do what we want. Not what others want. But they can do it themselves if they want.

God I really start to hate this over-glorified view on open source some people seem to have. People are given all the freedom they want with this particular source code being open, still they seem to demand the devs shall do everything they want for them. This is silly.

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#57: Re: multiverse-masterserver

by Gilt on 09/14/2006 01:12, refers to #55

that post was meant to encourage the people who are actually interested in mods and that kind of stuff to take charge.

normally it's best for the people who are actually interested and have an incentive to do something, to be the ones who take control and do it.

for example, I don't care much about open source stuff, and especially don't care about all the ideological baggage that seems to surround it. you guys on the other hand seem pretty earnest and opinionated about it. would you really want someone like me to control what freedoms you get?

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