Zlib License?

by c0rdawg on 09/11/2006 23:30, 77 messages, last message: 09/17/2006 03:03, 24402 views, last view: 05/18/2024 03:10

I'm sorry but I don't have a very good understanding of this Zlib License. Just today someone said that I was breaking the license. I have edited the sauerbraten server's source and recompiled it to add some features that it currently is lacking, but in no way do I ever claim that I created sauerbraten, and I haven't released the source so I can't be implying that the source code is mine. Have I done anything wrong?

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#1: ..

by eihrul on 09/12/2006 00:07

Legally, no.

But there is the ethical slippery slope we have with Sauer of how much we should allow people to modify clients/servers. Like the crap we have with people doing grenades under the excuse, "Well, it won't hurt anybody!" It starts there, then people start getting comfortable with the idea they can add any little cheats they want, and soon no one is playing honestly anymore.

I guess it's the same with servers, how much can you modify the server before it's no longer giving people Sauer gameplay anymore as we envisioned it?

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#2: Re: ..

by Passa on 09/12/2006 00:11, refers to #1

Its just a simple mod that pipes the data on the server about who is on it etc and shows it on a site via a PHP script.

I fear a Aphid style execution :/

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#3: Re: ..

by c0rdawg on 09/12/2006 00:20, refers to #2

Eh its a bit more than that Passa, http://c0rdawg.homeip.net/sauerbraten/ shows a list of stuff I'm working on or have completed. Although I haven't programmed anything to change the game play of sauerbraten or give people advantages over others.

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#4: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 09/12/2006 07:30, refers to #3

the problem is that you are changing the original game as designed by me, no matter how harmless. If what you make is a mod, then your mod should supply both a client and server, incompatible with the original multiplayer game.

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#5: Re: ..

by rancor on 09/12/2006 07:57, refers to #4

This sort of modding could be made unproblematic if the server would take commands from its standard input. You could then write a program that read the messages printed from the server, analyzed them, and sent commands to the server. The net effect would be that such mods would not need to alter the source.

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#6: Re: ..

by Passa on 09/12/2006 08:17, refers to #4

Aww.. :-(

My prediction was right, its Aphid's ranked server all over again..

Ah well, was fun while it lasted :)

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#7: Modded version protocol

by StillPeter on 09/12/2006 11:27

Of course, if there was simply a designated version that indicates alterations that have been made and allow those servers to be carried on the main server-list, then the executions could cease.

Then on the main server list you'd have official unchanged sauerbraten and a version for people who like server-side stuff.

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#8: Re: Modded version protocol

by Passa on 09/12/2006 11:40, refers to #7

But then of course, no-one would play with the mod (considering its not client side.. all they would need is a binary with a different protocol version :/ ...)

Look at pCube.. great mod, and yet no-one plays it. Server side mods are hardly mods at all anyway, its quite different to a client side mod in my view, and should be treated differently..

Someone making a client side mod that still played on normal pub servers but say had a whole heap of tweaks (not gameplay related) is something I would fret about..

But this, its a server side mod, it shows the server details on a webpage somewhere.. meh??? but it all comes down to the zlib license, which says 'no thats wrong'.

PS lets try not to let this erupt into a flame war people :)

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#9: Re: Modded version protocol

by StillPeter on 09/12/2006 11:46, refers to #8

Many people would play the modded server version if there was a downloadable client with the modded version protocol enabled available near the official version and the server-side modded servers were available on the master server. For one, I would. Server-side statistics are pretty neat-o.

I can wait until the official version has it too (which it hopefully will one day), but I don't think that's a good reason for dismissing it out of hand. There would be better versions generated by people if they had their servers available on the master server.

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#10: Re: Modded version protocol

by Passa on 09/12/2006 11:48, refers to #9

I can guarantee you no-one will play it.
Guaranteed.

Most players never visit these forums, they see Sauerbraten on GamersHell or w/e.. that was the problem with poor pCube.. :'(

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#11: Re: Modded version protocol

by StillPeter on 09/12/2006 11:57, refers to #10

Obviously, I question your guarantee - especially since I just said that I would.

Besides, it would be documented. Despite what people think, people do read the documentation, if only to find out how to edit and what parameters it accepts.

Plus, even if most players don't come here, there are a great number that do, and they would also know about it. People do want to play on Aphid's contribution, or c0rdawg' contribution, and they can quite easily do so, if what I suggest or a version of it was acted upon.

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#12: Re: Modded version protocol

by StillPeter on 09/12/2006 11:59, refers to #10

Furthermore, I can guarantee you that PCube's popularity would have soared if people connected to the masterserver and instead of being greeted with some servers with protocol doesn't match, were greeted with PCube server instead.

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#13: Re: Modded version protocol

by Passa on 09/12/2006 12:06, refers to #12

Search Google for Cube.
11,000,000 results.

Search Google for pCube.
34,500 results (none that even look like pCube anyway)

It comes down to the fact that Cube is on every half decent games site, even on crappy ones (like megagames) and as a result it is resonably popular.

pCube on the otherhand is only known to a select few on this forum, and a few people who visit Quadropolis.

Tell me, did you know about pCube 5 minutes ago (before my post mentioning it)?

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#14: Re: Modded version protocol

by StillPeter on 09/12/2006 13:06, refers to #13

I did, but I read these boards a lot. I recognise the fact that it isn't as popular now, but that doesn't address the point that it would have been more popular in the circumstances I describe.

Its a bit like saying advertising doesn't work because these products without advertising haven't been sold much.

This is all besides the point of course.

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#15: ..

by Sauercrowd on 09/12/2006 13:27

I fear the day when everybody brews his own cube version. The more people hop on this new \"I make a cube game\" train, the more stuff will be spread. Half finished clients, A Cube version with a little modification here, a Cube mod with a little tweak here. I dont know but this gives me the creeps! Aard lives up to a vision and everybody should come up with a little respect. At least asking him for permission is a good move. All this project war should be sorted out into projects that are worth to finish and projects that are just useless. Who needs a cube version with some minor tweaks anyway. The development is moving and I think that there are many many additions that will find the way into cube like scripting language ect ect.
People start to create whole new games (or at least go with an idea) before Cube2 is even in a mature state. Mature as a basic game not an engine.
Well just a thought and maybe I´ll get spanked for this...

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#16: Re: ..

by StillPeter on 09/12/2006 14:12, refers to #15

Open source development is generally a bunch of experimental versions with small changes where each change is eventually put into the main one if its good enough.

If only there was some way to let this happen yet still have a coherent official version ...

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#17: ..

by makkE on 09/12/2006 14:48

Thanks for the clarification, prax, but I can´t see anyone in this thread discussing cheating. You´re mixing up the threads.

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#18: ..

by Soulsliver on 09/12/2006 16:35

"Two completely different things if you can get their differences through your abnormal skulls into your scaled down brains."

Duke and Wang had better oneliners...

By the way I had to go with the name Sauercrowd c´se Firefox and IExplore dont accept the cockie recreation. Opera does. Strange things in an even more strange universe...
Gotta catch a Lakers game.
Let me see...5+5...Damnit where´s the calc...bye

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#19: ..

by Soulsliver on 09/12/2006 17:55

Nothing stands in your way...

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#20: ..

by Soulsliver on 09/12/2006 17:57

The point is you still dont get it. Why modding a game that´s still under development? Nobody pimps a car before it leaves the factory. Is it so hard to wait and see?

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