Ultimate Cube

by Passa on 05/11/2006 12:52, 42 messages, last message: 09/03/2006 05:07, 8071 views, last view: 05/03/2024 18:52

I somewhat announced the Ultimate Cube mod in another thread, and now it is being officially announced. Ultimate Cube is a modification of Cube generally aimed at improving it greatly in terms of gameplay and content, with the general purpose of extending the life of Cube. Someone else has already joined the project, and more people are welcome. If you wish to contribute in some way, please do. You can also leave suggestions or comments in this thread. Remember your imput is appreciated

Thanks

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#23: Found them

by PathagenX_ on 05/15/2006 04:02

Found the ammo box thingies. Quadropolis is awesome.

CC: If Passa does not get back to you on those maps after a few days or so, email me ucproject(at)pathagenx.cjb.net or drop me a line::
irc: irc.hackthissite.org:7000/#dev (SSL)
icq: 144198262
aim: pathagenx
msn: pathagenx(at)hotmail.com
yah: pathagenx
jab: pathagenx@jabber.org

I am a leetle busy atm, so hope that you can spend the time to fuss around with the supplied maps, Passa?

Oh and someone offered their texturing/mapping skills earlier...
Could that person just go all out and get artistic with textures? Whatever gets your fancy..
Space Station stuff would be cool.. Standard Cube is very samey.. munty old metal, stone and sand..
Also, SP maps would be cool...

Credit will be given for all donations to this project but know that anything donated to us will be public domain. The credits will be required to be packaged in anything originating from UC but we are not going to get caught up in our own pirating hole. If you are apposed to providing public domain items, then walk away people. :)

oh and anyone else can bug me via any of the above mentioned networks... I may be busy but I am hospitable. ! :)

OH OH! Also, I am redoing the mosters.. This Serious Sam(tm) themeless monster lineup does not cut it with me.

So more request for public input: What would be an interesting monster theme, for SP UC?

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#24: Aren't I just the little poster?

by PathagenX_ on 05/15/2006 04:26

Aight.. Working on a sword that will replace the fist.. I deleted sum'n I shouldn't and now hud guns are dead - Unfortunately this feature will not be in any official releases and you will have to suffer a working katana slash instead..

Uhh.. I got cube_old_stuff.zip from Quad and I love it but there are NO credit or lisence docs provided with them. I really want to use these, so could someone please come to my rescue with some details of who, what, when, how on the old cube ammo boxes and items.png?

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#25: great

by Aardappel_ on 05/15/2006 04:56

another project hijacker. but instead of arguing like last time I have learned it is smarter to wait, as it will likely fail anyway.

the old items are made my metlslime, who I doubt would want to give you permission. The same for many other files you are about to copy.

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#26: Moo

by PathagenX_ on 05/15/2006 05:15

Wow. Two 'clever' posts in one thread Aard.

That is a pitty. I will have to make new ammo boxes then.

I'm not a stupid idiot, like someone I could think of that allows privately owned content in my 'GPL' project. Go make Saur a mess and shutup.

BTW: There is no project stealing going on anywhere. and if you are so protective of your code, then it was a mistake to ever release it to the PD in the first place. If you are still deving Cube, then Passa and I are wasting our time.

Stop bitching like a 13 year old forum jockey and do something about it.

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#27: lazyness..

by PathagenX_ on 05/15/2006 06:01

Cube is released under a GPL compatable license, libpng/zlib License.

I was going to bring this up..

libpng and zlib are licensed under the OSL and libpng/zlib licenses.

The OSL states:
Grant of Copyright License. Licensor grants You a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, sublicensable license, for the duration of the copyright, to distribute or communicate copies of the Original Work and Derivative Works to the public, with the proviso that copies of Original Work or Derivative Works that You distribute or communicate shall be licensed under this Open Software License.

libpng/zlib breaks that by releasing the source under OSL and libpng/zlib.

Then Cube has added:
Source versions may not be "relicensed" under a different license without my explicitly written permission.

Unless Greg Roelofs had permission to relicense, anyone releasing a Cube derivative is now bound to keep exclusively to two licenses at once: The OSL and the libpng/zlib License.

If Greg Roelofs did not have permission to relicense, then the licensing issues with the sourcecode is rather more important than the issue of easily replaced, non-PD content.

What say ye, Aard? Merhaps you will give me your explicitly written permission, to return to the OSL?

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#28: :(

by Passa on 05/15/2006 08:23, refers to #25

Now this thread will turn into a flame war.. great..

Again I am appealing to those with SP maps or MP maps for Cube, anything half-decent should be sent to me so I can have a look. Don't bother looking on Quadropolis for one, I have grabbed everything good off there.

cc_machine: I checked out those maps, and I will include 'The Quest', no offense but the other two are absoloutely dreadful, 'The Quest' was half-way decent.

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#29: yay.

by PathagenX_ on 05/15/2006 15:47

> libpng and zlib are licensed under the OSL and libpng/zlib licenses.

That is incorrect. Neither libpng nor zlib is or ever has been dual-
licensed, to the best of my knowledge.

> The OSL states:
> Grant of Copyright License. Licensor grants You a worldwide, royalty-free,
> non-exclusive, sublicensable license, for the duration of the copyright, to
> distribute or communicate copies of the Original Work and Derivative Works
> to the public, with the proviso that copies of Original Work or Derivative
> Works that You distribute or communicate shall be licensed under this Open
> Software License.

> libpng/zlib breaks that by releasing the source under OSL and libpng/zlib.

Incorrect in both regards. Even if they were dual-licensed, the _licensor(s)_
can do anything he/she/it/they wish. Only those who have received the grant
of license--i.e., those who are not sole copyright owners, whose rights of
redistribution are granted solely through the license--are bound by its terms
of distribution.

The guy I emailed wasn't even the right guy. But he is a guru, so helped anyway. :D ... Today was one of the most shameful..

Anyway.. Yea.. Had a chat with Passa and (I think) we are agreed on a 0% Cube content mod/rerelease... Dun like pissing off Aard.. for whatever bloody reason he is pissed off... Barking like a chihuahua with its nuts in a mouse trap... No desire for license or property bullshit; only in the preservation I love. As Passa has stated, he is getting into Saur and just wants to make sure that Cube goes out with a bang.. I just want to continue supporting it, in absence of support from its creator/s.

What a day

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#30: counterproductive

by dbox__ on 05/15/2006 19:49, refers to #29

Acting like a jerk and insulting people (including the guy who wrote the software that you love so much) is not going to help you attract interest in your project.

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#31: Re: lazyness..

by Aardappel_ on 05/15/2006 20:18, refers to #27

The Cube _source_ is ZLIB, and yes, that extra clause is exactly in there to forbid any Cube code to ever become GPL. The Cube media has a variety of licenses. So yes, an addon is exactly what you want, as I have been saying since forever.

go out with a bang? I am just ensuring people don't mess it up, rather.

I am truely amazed how some people have these strong feelings of Cube vs Sauer. It's not like these two engines are so dissimilar, Sauer IS Cube with a new world structure. You know, progress is good, and Cube was kinda at the limit of what I could do with it.

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#32: SP Maps

by shadow,516 on 05/15/2006 22:07, refers to #28

Well... there is one... it was my first SP map, and my second cube map ever, AND its unfinnished (but I suppose you could just add an end trigger and a bunch of monsters in the last room I made). If you really want it, you can get it here:

http://shadow516.googlepages.com/triggerhappy.cgz

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#33: Re: SP Maps

by Passa on 05/15/2006 23:07, refers to #32

Thanks shadow :)
More maps are still needed if anyone has some.

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#34: Progress is great

by PathagenX_ on 05/16/2006 03:10

Yea, I have said (and am sure I did so in this post) that Saur is a great engine and superior to Cube. That does not mean that Cube has to vanish, just becuase something bigger and better has come along.

I insult Aard, after 2x uncalled for posts.

Acting like a jerk? Hardly.

No I do not have much interest in Saur. I played it, I was amazed (mostly the RPG maps - They are less intensive for my crappy video card and so, when they are used more, I will be right there. As for the deathmatch.. well, it is my opinion (and I have never preached my opinion as the universal perspective).. Cube is fine. You run in and kill as many others as you can, before you are overwhelmed by enemies coming in from every which way.. I could play some of the older Saur maps (pre occlusion?) and I loved them. I showed them to my LANmates and they stopped playing junk like CS and Doom3 (it was cool back then) and joined me in deathmatch and it was great. I still hold that it is not Cube anymore (IMO) and more and more people will agree, as Saur developes into something massive.

I however, enjoy the simplicity of Cube. I do not enjoy being an Ogre, fighting his ugly Ogre siblings of identical appearance but instead of bitching about it, I am trying to fix such.

Pheh "go out with a bang? I am just ensuring people don't mess it up, rather." What have you to lose? If I fail, I fail.

Atleast you know now that I have no desire to gain success of others' work. Yes, there are some things about Cube that I would be so honored to include but given the problems this community has had about content.. I am half way through sourcing all of my own content so you can hardly accuse me of 'hijacking' again Aard.

As I said, sorted out the license problem.. this email explains it:
Re: license worries, concerning libpng..
> Well, I goofed up I guess.
> Sourceforge lists libpng as dual licensed.

Ah...you are correct. http://sourceforge.net/projects/libpng/ shows it
dual-licensed, even though the software itself doesn't. I suspect that
was confusion on Glenn's part; "Open Software License" looks a lot like
"Open Source license," and he may have added it as a more generic category
by mistake.

> Followed the trail, somehow through your site. I obviously got lost
> somewhere.

I do maintain the (or a) libpng home page, but I do not list myself as one
of the principal authors, and I do direct people to the png-mng-implement
list as a point of contact for libpng questions.

> But you were a great help, none the less.

Glad to be of service! And thank you for pointing out the SF problem.
No doubt Glenn will take care of that when he has a chance.

Regards,
Greg [Roelofs]

and further:
Fixed. I don't know how that happened but must have been some confusion when
"trove" categorization first came along. I must have been trying, as Greg
surmized, to set "open source license: zlib/libpng".

Glenn [Randers-Pehrson]

Aard: If you are so worried about us stuffing up, try helping by not standing in the doorway so much. We cannot get in your way, if you are not in our's.

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#35: Re: Progress is great

by Gilt on 05/16/2006 04:32, refers to #34

I haven't really kept up with all the copyright talk over the past bit, but you know, I think there really must be a bit of misunderstanding on Aard's motivations here. The cold facts are that Aard has given the engine source a license which is incredibly light, and I believe the content that he personally has created for the game are pretty much in the public domain. I don't see how anyone can say anything against his generosity in these regards.

So if he is not here protecting his own rights, then whos rights is he standing up for? And see, that's the thing; Aard is actually part of a bunch of different content creation communities. Quite a bit of the art used in the game is made by people who know him and are from those communities. They know of Aard not because of his programming abilities, but rather because he also takes part in creating maps and what not. I, myself, didn't come here because it of the technical or open source stuff. I just happend to play his maps, and read his posts about mapping on other forums, and stumbled over here.

If I were a content creator (and I am!) I'd be pretty happy that someone was willing to stand up for my rights. I know most artists don't actually want to get into the legalities of defending their rights against every random person who wants to take advantage of them (accidently or otherwise). So if they were to donate their work to a project the least they'd hope for, I suspect, is that the people in charge of that project would help to protect their rights. And anyway, if they really wanted to waive some of their rights they could always just include a readme with the game.

"public domain. The credits will be required to be packaged in anything originating from UC"

if you require credits then it isn't really in the public domain. public domain means that the creator of the work has no more right to it then joe-blow-random-dude-on-the-internet. Which is just to show that even if you don't realize it, you understand how important these rights are. If you didn't understand that you wouldn't care whether or not people were credited with the work they did.

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#36: Excuse me?

by PathagenX_ on 05/16/2006 07:27

..

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#37: Excuse me?

by PathagenX_ on 05/16/2006 07:43

Are you stating that you think that I am not worried as much about the work of the content creators, as I am about the source licensing?

First off, I feel that all gratis content should be delivered verbatim. They worked to create the art and some of them could have been pushing themselves, for time or for skill to do such. Verbatim with full credit to THEM, not the creator of the game that they were packaged under. As with source code. Any Intellectual Property is the sole property of its creator untill the creator says otherwise.

Why 'correct' me on the use of PD? Do you know how many licenses there are for IP? Go to the OSI certification page and see how many of those licenses cover content aswell and then go to Wikipedia and find more licenses. So I was lazy and flicked a blanket label - One that suggested 'free for all'.

Besides, Passa is handling the donations of content, so you need not worry about my filthy robber hands getting on it.

If Aard felt that we were out to steal anything, he was wrong. I apolagize for giving that impression and repeat that there will be 0% old Cube (not including IP donated specifically to UC) in the release or mod. My only interest right now is the source code anyway and ATM, I am knee deep in it.

From now on, I will leave all content disputes to Passa. Anything to say relating to code? I'm all ears.

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#38: source modification

by Passa on 05/16/2006 22:39

Pathagenx, I know you are really into the whole idea of modifying the source, but UC is just a map-pack, and thats all it will ever be.

Even if you add new features with source modification, most Cube players are not on this forum, so not many will switch to UC. At least with the map-pack, if a player does not have it, someone else can just sendmap the map they are playing on.

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#39: ..

by PathagenX_ on 05/17/2006 02:37

Eh? You tell me this now? X/ I bloody told you what I was going to add... Wierd.. Uhhwell then Map pack away. :)

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#40: Re: :(

by CC_machine4 on 05/17/2006 16:49, refers to #28

i know, my SP maps are rubbish, but you said "decent" not "good" lol

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#41: Ultimate Cube 1.1

by Passa on 09/03/2006 02:26

Its here, the updated Ultimate Cube!
http://www.quadropolis.us/node/307

In short, its got more maps.. and stuff :)

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#42: Re: Ultimate Cube 1.1

by shadow,516 on 09/03/2006 05:07, refers to #41

No SP?

:(

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