The Sauerbraten & Cube wiki...

by Aardappel_ on 07/03/2005 17:48, 31 messages, last message: 12/02/2005 07:22, 4746 views, last view: 04/30/2024 02:04

please read: http://strlen.com/wiki/?id=SauerWikiUsage
:)

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#12: Re: hmm

by Pxtl on 07/13/2005 22:24, refers to #12

I think this is a case of forum flame-tendency. The problem is that a friendly, ribbing tone can come through as an attack in text form. Aard has, by virtue of being the sort of pseudo-celebrity that every popular project lead is, gotten a lot of annoying attacks and harassment pushed at him through this site, which I think makes him a tad defensive.

Plus, age and reputation don't really show through either. For example, I questioned many of Aard's design decisions in the Cube console scripting language. Little did I realise that Aard has a reputation for being one of the most prolific language developers in history (see his Portland Patterns Repository entry: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WouterVanOortmerssen). Oddly enough, his game designs only got a recently-added footnote in the entry.

So, naturally, he got a little annoyed when I suggested that I had problems with the console language.

I don't think people quite realise the environment here - the group ranges from adult programming geniuses to fresh students to highschool kids, and everybody tends to assume the wrong facts about everybody else.

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#13: Re: hmm

by Aardappel_ on 07/13/2005 22:56, refers to #12

I sort of deliberately twisted around morgaine's comment... that is not an example of being defense.

But yes, I am always suprised about how argumentative some people get with me without having any sort of experience to back it up. You'd think even the random 14 year old would see the rather steep difference between themselves and me without me having to bust out my CV... but for some reason they still think they're right and I am wrong.

Ah well, I guess its natural that you think you own the world until you learn enough to understand there's always people that know more :) It is just annoying to have to endure a steady stream of these people. I guess I was like that too when I was young... I thought I was an unbeatable programmer when I wrote my first compiler. At least now I know that my first compiler sucked, and that I still have a hell of a lot to learn, especially nowadays.

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#14: ..

by madcrow on 07/13/2005 23:23

Well, I'm thinking that maybe a look at the differences between Cube and Sauerbraten would be nice. So far here's what I've gathered:

Cube is more or less complete and stable, Sauer isn't.

Sauer has more complex possibilities for geometries, sort of like Quake versus Doom.

Sauer has streamlined editing functions that should make things even easier for mappers.

Eventually, Sauer will support adavanced functions like Pixel and Vertex shaders. There's no way stuff like that will be coming to Cube.

If I have that all right, I can put up a wiki page tomorrow.

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#15: anyone using this?

by pushplay on 07/14/2005 03:19

I'm not sure what exactly we want from this. Right now it's a decent dumping ground for frequently asked questions and longer documents. If it's to become something more than that it's going to have to evolve naturally.

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#16: Re: ..

by spentron on 07/14/2005 12:58, refers to #14

More detailed differences:

Cube has immediate lighting during editing. The simple cylindrical lighting system only works well because it matches the limitations on geometry and provides immediate feedback to the mapper. This also is consistent with the whole in-game editing approach. Sauerbraten's lighting requires substantial calculation time, comparable to conventional game editors, but is more powerful and appropriate to its capabilities.

Sauerbraten development is an open source community project while Cube was developed by Aardappel only. For this reason Sauer will have support built-in for separation of the engine itself and specific games.

In no way is the difference in "maturity" more emphasized than in the difference of games and maps available for the engines. Cube shows years of development. The majority of Sauer's maps are test maps. The few complete MP and SP maps show promise, but also a similarity to Cube maps -- the actual possibilities are almost overwhelming to consider.

Cube's heightmaps *connect across* cubes while Sauer's are individual to the various sized cubes. This has advantages and disadvantages.

Also both Cube and Sauer can be contrasted to mapping in other games. Full game editors are not necessarily hard to use, and the additional power to make arbitrary, unlimited geometry can actually make editing easier. However, mapping in the cubic games has an interesting kind of puzzle aspect comparable to Etch-a-Sketch or Legos; it is easier only within certain limitations. It is also more "incremental" in that one can be tempted to mess around with a map for a short period but then tends to get pulled in. Technically, an important contrast is that pasting operations replace rather than add or subtract to existing geometry. "BSP hole" type errors are not possible, although errors of mapping of course still are.

Finally, there is a difference of the communities. Successful commercial games bring with them a huge following, but also limiting preconceptions.

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#17: ..

by sinsky on 07/15/2005 15:16

I added one md2 tutorial which I wrote after a request from pxtl for Quadropolis (it didn't get there I think, mainly because I could't find where to submit it so I slapped it in the forum and it's still there - big surprise). This is the first time I use wiki, the system is cool and everything but please sort it out if important information is added in the future. I don't want my post to get in the way of more useful stuff.

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#18: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 07/15/2005 15:23, refers to #17

Whoops. Sorry. If you're still interested in submitting it as a guide to Quadropolis, you go to Create Content, and then select Story. Guides are a subset of Stories.

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#19: Re: ..

by sinsky on 07/15/2005 15:26, refers to #18

I will, thank you :)

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#20: Re: ..

by sinsky on 07/15/2005 15:47, refers to #18

Yay, couldn't find story in create content. Please copy it from the wiki and post it with my account if it's not too much trouble.

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#21: hm

by Pxtl on 07/15/2005 18:46

Its there now.
http://cube.snieb.com/taxonomy/term/21

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#22: Re: hm

by sinsky on 07/16/2005 01:59, refers to #21

Cool thanks!

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#23: Re: hmm

by kernowyon on 07/19/2005 01:04, refers to #9

Well, Morgaine and I put up some stuff about the Linux side of Cube initially. I don't think much else has been contributed so far - but hopefully someone with a few Windows installs may like to make a start on the Windows side of things?
I cant really make much comment on Sauer - I have no real experience on it only a quick test now and again of the latest versions :(
But if nobody else fancies a dig round the forums for stuff to add, I will have a go for the Cube side of things. I *have* installed on Windows before now - mostly to test out the interesting differences between Linux and Windows jumping.
Afraid my contributions will be as and when - I am pretty busy with distro work currently.
Mark

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#24: cube & viagra

by Aardappel_ on 11/29/2005 10:40

the wiki was attacked by a bot that a lot of pages into a linkfarm. The damage has been undone, but I really can't be bothered playing wiki police. So I am considering removing the wiki altogether, or making it read only (only me), or maybe giving very few people passwords. But I am not sure if any of that is useful, especially since the amount of activity on it was low anyway. Thoughts?

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#25: Re: cube & viagra

by macdonag_work on 11/29/2005 11:11, refers to #24

Migrate to a wiki system with unique image codes for updating/creating pages?

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#26: Re: cube & viagra

by sinsky on 11/29/2005 17:14, refers to #24

The Cube wiki was my first contact with wikis and I really liked the system. But is it practical for Cube? There are wikish activities in Quadropolis with discussions and ratings.. maybe to make it work you got to make noise, let players rate each other, the info is just a bonus. I mean Cube is a game after all. There isn't much academic staff around to maintain an encyclopedia of some sort.

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#27: Re: cube & viagra

by Aardappel_ on 11/29/2005 20:20, refers to #25

the cool thing about the current wiki is that its small and easy to install (does not require touching the web server at all). Most wiki's become an administration nightmare.

Yeah I am not sure if a wiki is needed. Maybe just a few regulars who contribute to documentation would be good. Wiki's are great though, theres LOTs of stuff that can be usefully put on there, even for cube/sauer. All the hidden wisdom in this forum, for one :)

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#28: wiki good. your wiki bad.

by Sparr on 12/01/2005 15:14

hate to say it, but the wiki software you chose seems to have issues. i wrestled with getting an image to show up on the edge spans page for like an hour. it didnt work any of the 3 different ways the wiki was supposed to support. has this been resolved? i think wikis are amazing tools, but only if they function seamlessly.

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#29: ads again

by Sparr on 12/01/2005 15:15

also, the usage page is a link farm again. a captcha would fix that.

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#30: Grr.

by MeatROme on 12/01/2005 19:38

Yeah. I just visited.
What a nuisance.
Some ppl. should really get a life, eh?!?

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#31: ok

by Aardappel_ on 12/02/2005 07:22

so appearently that bot will keep ruining it. The wiki is passworded for the moment. Anyone that I know that wants to work on the wiki is still most welcome, just get in contact with me and I will give you the password.

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