The Sauerbraten & Cube wiki...

by Aardappel_ on 07/03/2005 17:48, 31 messages, last message: 12/02/2005 07:22, 4751 views, last view: 05/17/2024 05:27

please read: http://strlen.com/wiki/?id=SauerWikiUsage
:)

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#1: Wiki problems

by shadow 516* on 07/04/2005 02:54

I still can't use the Wiki with IE. PLEASE fix this. I hate to d/l the source every time I want to read something.

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#2: Is it wrong that...

by HopFrog on 07/04/2005 04:14

I'm taking sick pleasure in something not working right in IE? :-P

http://www.mozilla.org

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#3: Ahem

by pushplay on 07/04/2005 05:17

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fstrlen.com%2Fwiki%2F%3Fid%3DSauerWikiUsage

The problem is the title tag isn't closed. IE isn't wrong in rendering the page like that, gecko is just a little more clever.

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#4: Re: Wiki problems

by >driAn<. on 07/04/2005 10:54, refers to #1

http://getfirefox.com

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#5: fixed

by Aardappel_ on 07/04/2005 18:42

works in IE now

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#6: Re: fixed

by shadow516. on 07/04/2005 21:57, refers to #5

Thank you aard.

/me glares evily at everyone else

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#7: Re: fixed

by .shadow516 on 07/06/2005 00:24, refers to #7

/me jeers at Morgaine's double chin

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#8: Re: fixed

by kernowyon on 07/06/2005 10:43, refers to #8

Wow - thats a very disturbing vision you just conjoured up there morgaine ;)

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#9: hmm

by Aardappel_ on 07/13/2005 06:47

anyone using this? I can't do it all myself. Like I said, documentation is a weak spot of cube & sauer, if anyone can collect knowledge from past forum threads and put it in the wiki, that be great.

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#10: Re: hmm

by Aardappel_ on 07/13/2005 21:29, refers to #10

I meant external documentation. Cluttering the source with senseless comments is not my thing. I understand every line of the cube code 4 years after it has been written... that's because its small and simple. No amount of comments can save large & complex code :)

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#11: Re: hmm

by Aardappel_ on 07/13/2005 21:47, refers to #11

I guess that marks me as an incompetent software developer then. Ah well, there go my dreams.. :(

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#12: Re: hmm

by Pxtl on 07/13/2005 22:24, refers to #12

I think this is a case of forum flame-tendency. The problem is that a friendly, ribbing tone can come through as an attack in text form. Aard has, by virtue of being the sort of pseudo-celebrity that every popular project lead is, gotten a lot of annoying attacks and harassment pushed at him through this site, which I think makes him a tad defensive.

Plus, age and reputation don't really show through either. For example, I questioned many of Aard's design decisions in the Cube console scripting language. Little did I realise that Aard has a reputation for being one of the most prolific language developers in history (see his Portland Patterns Repository entry: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WouterVanOortmerssen). Oddly enough, his game designs only got a recently-added footnote in the entry.

So, naturally, he got a little annoyed when I suggested that I had problems with the console language.

I don't think people quite realise the environment here - the group ranges from adult programming geniuses to fresh students to highschool kids, and everybody tends to assume the wrong facts about everybody else.

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#13: Re: hmm

by Aardappel_ on 07/13/2005 22:56, refers to #12

I sort of deliberately twisted around morgaine's comment... that is not an example of being defense.

But yes, I am always suprised about how argumentative some people get with me without having any sort of experience to back it up. You'd think even the random 14 year old would see the rather steep difference between themselves and me without me having to bust out my CV... but for some reason they still think they're right and I am wrong.

Ah well, I guess its natural that you think you own the world until you learn enough to understand there's always people that know more :) It is just annoying to have to endure a steady stream of these people. I guess I was like that too when I was young... I thought I was an unbeatable programmer when I wrote my first compiler. At least now I know that my first compiler sucked, and that I still have a hell of a lot to learn, especially nowadays.

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#14: ..

by madcrow on 07/13/2005 23:23

Well, I'm thinking that maybe a look at the differences between Cube and Sauerbraten would be nice. So far here's what I've gathered:

Cube is more or less complete and stable, Sauer isn't.

Sauer has more complex possibilities for geometries, sort of like Quake versus Doom.

Sauer has streamlined editing functions that should make things even easier for mappers.

Eventually, Sauer will support adavanced functions like Pixel and Vertex shaders. There's no way stuff like that will be coming to Cube.

If I have that all right, I can put up a wiki page tomorrow.

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#15: anyone using this?

by pushplay on 07/14/2005 03:19

I'm not sure what exactly we want from this. Right now it's a decent dumping ground for frequently asked questions and longer documents. If it's to become something more than that it's going to have to evolve naturally.

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#16: Re: ..

by spentron on 07/14/2005 12:58, refers to #14

More detailed differences:

Cube has immediate lighting during editing. The simple cylindrical lighting system only works well because it matches the limitations on geometry and provides immediate feedback to the mapper. This also is consistent with the whole in-game editing approach. Sauerbraten's lighting requires substantial calculation time, comparable to conventional game editors, but is more powerful and appropriate to its capabilities.

Sauerbraten development is an open source community project while Cube was developed by Aardappel only. For this reason Sauer will have support built-in for separation of the engine itself and specific games.

In no way is the difference in "maturity" more emphasized than in the difference of games and maps available for the engines. Cube shows years of development. The majority of Sauer's maps are test maps. The few complete MP and SP maps show promise, but also a similarity to Cube maps -- the actual possibilities are almost overwhelming to consider.

Cube's heightmaps *connect across* cubes while Sauer's are individual to the various sized cubes. This has advantages and disadvantages.

Also both Cube and Sauer can be contrasted to mapping in other games. Full game editors are not necessarily hard to use, and the additional power to make arbitrary, unlimited geometry can actually make editing easier. However, mapping in the cubic games has an interesting kind of puzzle aspect comparable to Etch-a-Sketch or Legos; it is easier only within certain limitations. It is also more "incremental" in that one can be tempted to mess around with a map for a short period but then tends to get pulled in. Technically, an important contrast is that pasting operations replace rather than add or subtract to existing geometry. "BSP hole" type errors are not possible, although errors of mapping of course still are.

Finally, there is a difference of the communities. Successful commercial games bring with them a huge following, but also limiting preconceptions.

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#17: ..

by sinsky on 07/15/2005 15:16

I added one md2 tutorial which I wrote after a request from pxtl for Quadropolis (it didn't get there I think, mainly because I could't find where to submit it so I slapped it in the forum and it's still there - big surprise). This is the first time I use wiki, the system is cool and everything but please sort it out if important information is added in the future. I don't want my post to get in the way of more useful stuff.

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#18: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 07/15/2005 15:23, refers to #17

Whoops. Sorry. If you're still interested in submitting it as a guide to Quadropolis, you go to Create Content, and then select Story. Guides are a subset of Stories.

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#19: Re: ..

by sinsky on 07/15/2005 15:26, refers to #18

I will, thank you :)

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#20: Re: ..

by sinsky on 07/15/2005 15:47, refers to #18

Yay, couldn't find story in create content. Please copy it from the wiki and post it with my account if it's not too much trouble.

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