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Idea of Cube/Sauer RPG

by Pxtl on 05/03/2004 18:38, 105 messages, last message: 05/26/2004 12:38, 70434 views, last view: 05/18/2024 22:09

I've read a little of the Sauer RPG concept, and was thinking about Sauer as a simple pseudo-MMO. Nothing fancy, more like a 100 player system.

Here's the principle. First of all, you network several servers together, each of them running one or more maps. You set up one as the "metaserver" that holds all the player attributes/inventory, or store them in a distributed fashion. Travel between worlds is by teleport gate. Connections to servers you have left recently are kept live in a minimal, passive mode, free to be broken by the server or client if it should need the resources, so that you can quickly move between servers if you need to. Possibly, when approaching a gate, the connection could be attempted pre-emptively. One barrier would be that different servers would have different player-limits, so locations of high-importance would have to be stored on more robust connections.

Now, the concept: first of all, this is a PK game. When you join the game, you arrive as a "freeman" - you pick your starting selections (depending on the gamestyle, that might be class, race, stats, whatever - details). You are not affiliated with any faction, simply owning your own. You arrive in one of many Temples, which are the spawn locales - they are the non-combat zones - everyone in there is unarmed and invulnerable. At this point you may try to a) build a team from other people or b) join a larger faction. The system is similar to standard Cube's teamplay, except that a) teams are despotic - their founder is in charge, and b) you may only join a team if invited by a founder or one of his appointed lieutenants. Individual players may enable and disable team-damage at will, and killing the team-leader will let you take his place as the ruler of a team, even if you were not previously a member of said team. Team leaders may kick any member of a team off of a team, and lieutenants may kick off any non-lieutenants. At any time a player may leave his team to found a new one, or join an existing team if invited. Thus, backstabbing is encouraged - you may take control by killing the team leader, or you may quickly form a competing faction to a previous team by forming a new team and inviting some of your cohorts into it. So, treason, etc. is part of the game and designed in.

Now, the objective: the only freely available respawn points are in temples. Temples have many exits, both public and hidden, so that leaving them shouldn't be too much of a spawncamp. Alternately there are castles, which work like nodes from UT2k4 - you take a castle standard and thus your team owns the castle and can then spawn there. Ultimately there is the Palace. The palace contains the throne, which is the ultimate objective of the game - whichever team controls the throne is racking up victory points, which represent how successful your team is. The leader of the royal team is the King, and they are getting double. So, there is incentive for everyone in the game to kill the king, but to balance that he has powers beyond those of normal players.

Victory points could come from other thigns as well, such as killing large monsters or important players, or maybe just getting some points to compensate for being a late joiner. Note that victory points aren't experience points - they determine who's the "winner" - not what goodies and powers you get.

So, we have a free-form Domination structure. Next, we base it in a traditional FPS/RPG setting - the landscape is dotted with monsters, ruins, crap like that to explore, so small teams of adventurers can go freelancing and collect stuff and level up, without having to worry overmuch about running into the higher level players. Equipment is divided into two categories - personal items, such as armour, charms, and small hand weapons, and heavy equipment, such as large weapons, shields, etc. Heavy equipment breaks easily and wears out, so it must take constant attention and it comes and goes quickly. Personal items last long, but tend to be weaker. THe idea is that you lose the heavy equipment when you die, but it comes and goes easily, so its not a big deal. Personal items are much trickier to lose, like skills and levels. Things, or specially powered players, can steal them, but its not easy.

The King gets special abilities to damage players to their more sensitive parts (skills, levels, etc) to discourage dissent. Remember, the King can be dethroned two ways - he can be killed and supplanted by an enemy or teammate, or his team can lose the Throne. Plus, the Royal team has another incentive not to infight to much: while they're bickering, someone could take the Throne.

Finally, the lay of the land is such that the best pickings are around the castles - the Palace has heavy artillery to defend her, but not much opportunity for self-improvement. The temples are based in newbie-land. So teams, (or even individuals) do well to find and take the castles and hold them as a base of operations from which to adventure, and hope that a clever thief doesn't sneak in and take it from them while they're out.

Because of the game's focus on defense, hiring and controlling monsters/guards would be a good feature.

And of course, just for the epic-dragonslaying - all the castles/palaces start out guarded by somewhat powerful creatures, so players have to clear them out before claiming them.

Just reset the game once a week, or even every few hours to keep it fresh.

If your wondering where I got the idea for such a mean, backstabbing game, play Munchkin - its a card-game RPG about levelling up and backstabbing your teammates. Also has good balance ideas - the most powerful players are obviously so, and are winning, so losers tend to gang up against them. Also, the weakest players automatically get everyone else's discards. Just food for thought.

This was just a twisted idea I put together from the stuff that players have mentioned about Cube and Sauer.

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#66: Re: Main Plot...

by jcdpc on 05/10/2004 12:21, refers to #65

baldurs gate has one to, it has a little picture of your guy- a paperdoll- and when you put armor and stuff on you see it appear on the paper doll. nwn & U7 does not have a paper doll because it doesn't have a seperate screen for inventory and you can see the items you place on your charecter directly in the game.

I've never played gothic either, but i heard it's very hack-and-slash and not really RPG-ish.

Each rune has an element (fire, food),adjective (greater,lesser) , or verb (create, throw) attached to it. then you get spells- create greater fire, create lesser fire, create greater food, create lesser food, throw greater fire, etc...
http://www.cruiser.com.br/raven/library/manuals/uw1man.html

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#67: Re: Main Plot...

by e:n:i:g:m:a on 05/10/2004 16:43, refers to #66

Hmmm, I like that (the paper-doll thing)!


As far as the runes... I like that too! But it sound a little too complex for any fast-pased action. Unless the game provides a mechanism to bind specific spells to different keys.

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#68: Distinction between

by Pxtl on 05/10/2004 17:11

Player-equipping vs. combat rearming? After all, it makes sense that a character can physically whip out the other sword off of his belt, or cast a spell with a free hand - but he can't exactly fish the wrench out of his backpack at a moment's notice, or change his armour. I'd go so far as to say the player must "put his pack down" or something similar to get to his full inventory screen, and in game be restricted to a quick-use inventory based on the conventional FPS 1-9 keys system. I'd go so far as to say you have two hands and physically have to take the items in your hands to use them. Thus, the runes and weapons you keep handy can be in the quick-use inventory. So, you have the "big jug of healing potion" as your weapon, with the amount of potion inside it as its ammo, so you're chugging it with one hand and swinging your sword with the other.

Idunno, there's an endless supply of different ways to do spells, inventory, etc. in FPS games. The only thing I'd like to avoid is Diablo, where you have one giant-ass inventory and paper doll system that, if you're quick, you can reconfigure in the middle of combat, and most of the game is "Smash smash heal smash heal smash heal smash smash" ad nauseum.

Oh, and for a good game where spells are made on the fly, play a Playstation game called Destrega. All the spells are fireball attacks, but there are three buttons: Tidu, Este, and Fo. Tidu is a quick, small shot, Este is a high power shot, and Fo is a spread shot. After you start casting one shot, you can modify it by pumping in the other forms of attack. So you can cast a Tidu and then make it a spreadfire Tidu by hitting Fo. Or you can cast a Fo but make it more painful by hitting Este. You have enough energy for three attacks, so that can be used for three small attacks between recharges or one big one with two modifications on it. And of course, using one of each released your super.

It was a good game, with an interesting system. Perhaps something like that would be good?

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#69: Re: Distinction between

by jcdpc@school on 05/10/2004 19:04, refers to #68

sounds like zelda-style sword fighting, only with magic and more button pushing... I dunno I like the rune system better, have like 9 runes each bound to a numbmer on the numberpad, it would keep it more fast paced than dragging runes outta yer inventory...

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#70: Smash smash heal smash heal smash heal smash smash

by jcdpc on 05/11/2004 00:12

Smash smash heal smash heal smash heal smash smash is common. in NWN you have that little rock that allows the player to run from combat and heal while the monster just stays in one spot. Morrowind has the same problem because monsters wont follow you outside. one way around this to have an adventure system seprate from the battle system (most early RPGs have this- "Pool of Radiance" (the new one has it too but it sux), "Buck Rogers" , early ultimas)
PS- I have a crappy rpg on my site if you want to see what this battle system is like ( http://freehost10.websamba.com/jcdpc.tk/cubesite/orcs ) I hope the link works. Oh, and that RPG is something i did with the OHRRPGCE at www.hamsterrepublic.com, it's a ok rpg engine but the graphics suck.

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#71: Re: Smash smash heal smash heal smash heal smash smash

by jcdpc on 05/11/2004 00:13, refers to #70

stupid link! www.jcdpc.tk go to the bottom of the page click ORCS.

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#72: Re: Smash smash heal smash heal smash heal smash smash

by Thalion on 05/11/2004 03:27, refers to #70

I'd prefer classic turn-based, Wizardry-style combat. Gives you something to really _think_ about, in terms of spells as well... Definitely not what's descrived above =)

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#73: Re: Smash smash heal smash heal smash heal smash smash

by e:n:i:g:m:a on 05/11/2004 05:09, refers to #72

Ugh, turn-based is almost always menu-based and menu-based is just plain BORING.
On top of that, turn-menu-based combat is ALWAYS a numbers game, and removes all real strategy from the game.

I'd like something with a little more action (like Zelda or Secret of Mana)

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#74: Re: Smash smash heal smash heal smash heal smash smash

by Aardappel on 05/11/2004 05:56, refers to #73

"turn based combat removes all real strategy from the game"

I rank that #1 on the dumbest phrases spoken on this board... and that is against stiff competition.

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#75: Re: Smash smash heal smash heal smash heal smash smash

by e:n:i:g:m:a on 05/11/2004 06:53, refers to #74

Ok, so maybe not ALL real strategy, but MOST turn-based games boil down to a numbers game. Then what I mean when you loose all strategy is the person with the best attack itmes, or armor, or spells, or whatever wins. Granted there is some strategy there, but then alot of it isn't based on player skill (you can have the most "skilled" player in the game, but if he or she goes up against a total newbie that has all the "best" items, he is most likely to lose unless the newb has no idea how to play...). Games like Worms Armageddon are an exception, but they aren't RPG's.

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#76: Re: Smash smash heal smash heal smash heal smash smash

by e:n:i:g:m:a on 05/11/2004 06:54, refers to #75

And that isn't to say that there is or isn't strategy outside of combat, but there usually isn't in turn-based games, it's just about leveling up, getting better items, and completing the next "goal."

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#77: ..

by staffy02 on 05/11/2004 08:50

has anyone played golden sun? it is the best rpg i have played.

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#78: Re: Smash smash heal smash heal smash heal smash smash

by jcdpc on 05/11/2004 12:19, refers to #75

>turn based combat removes all real strategy from the game

no, turn-base adds strategy. it gives you time to think about your next move and what spells/items you should use. Altough it also adds math, and no one wants to do math, cuz thats not fun. Also it takes away from the action and it doesnt require skill. skill and strategy are 2 different things.

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#79: Well, it depends on what we mean by

by Pxtl on 05/11/2004 14:26

Heheh, depends on the turn based game. If we're talking about X-Com, then yes, turn based is adding a metric assload of strategy. If we're talking about the earlier Final Fantasy games, then we may as well be playing BlackJack while watching a movie. The strategy of that is all number crunching and statistics.

I think that's what he meant by TBS games being "less strategic" - in super-simple RPG's where its just "guard, attack, item, spell" options, then the strategy is just plain stupid, and making it real-time manages to make it at least a little exciting because of the time constraints.

Either way, Sauer's an FPS. Any form it takes as an RPG will make me happy provided the following conditions:
1) multiplayer with PvP available.
2) No instant healing in combat.

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#80: Re: Well, it depends on what we mean by

by jcdpc@school on 05/11/2004 18:54, refers to #79

I dont like Final Fantasy, its boring and the plot is stupid, plus any game or movie or book or anything where you can have both a sword and a gun usally sucks.

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#81: Re: Smash smash heal smash heal smash heal smash smash

by e:n:i:g:m:a on 05/12/2004 05:07, refers to #78

I'm nost saying that MOST (not all) TBS games boild down to numbers, and then the person with the best cards, monsters, weapons, etc. will win unless his opponent has no idea how to play the game...


Anway, those games really don't requre any "Skill" like you said, and have zero action in them. Personally I'm rather tired of boring, TBS games.

>anything where you can have both a sword and a gun usually sucks

Have you ever played PSO?

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#82: Re: Smash smash heal smash heal smash heal smash smash

by jcdpc on 05/12/2004 12:35, refers to #81

yes i have. Their are exceptions but very few. Phantasy Star is one of them. but it has a plot and a more or less consistent setting, most games with both a sword and gun dont, and are unbalanced and have bad plots (usually, not always)

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#83: Hmmph...

by Pxtl on 05/12/2004 13:51

Your little "sword and gun" rule misses a lot of good Japanese fantasy games, particularly those set in a Steampunk style. Devil May Cry for example.

Depending on your tastes, Shogo may or may not be considered a good game. That's got both swords and guns.

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#84: Re: Hmmph...

by jcdpc@school on 05/12/2004 19:06, refers to #83

The rule doesnt really apply to steampunk and other settings where a sword and gun makes a little sense. But most games that have a sword and gun try to have too many weapons and too many settings and the plot doesnt really fit with it. Sometime (starwars, dues ex) the sword makes sense because its futuristic or it fits with the culture (hong kong)

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#85: Re: Hmmph...

by e:n:i:g:m:a on 05/14/2004 00:45, refers to #84

You are right, I was just bring up an exception...

Perhaps we could replace "guns" with "magic" of some kind

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