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Idea of Cube/Sauer RPG

by Pxtl on 05/03/2004 18:38, 105 messages, last message: 05/26/2004 12:38, 70435 views, last view: 05/18/2024 22:13

I've read a little of the Sauer RPG concept, and was thinking about Sauer as a simple pseudo-MMO. Nothing fancy, more like a 100 player system.

Here's the principle. First of all, you network several servers together, each of them running one or more maps. You set up one as the "metaserver" that holds all the player attributes/inventory, or store them in a distributed fashion. Travel between worlds is by teleport gate. Connections to servers you have left recently are kept live in a minimal, passive mode, free to be broken by the server or client if it should need the resources, so that you can quickly move between servers if you need to. Possibly, when approaching a gate, the connection could be attempted pre-emptively. One barrier would be that different servers would have different player-limits, so locations of high-importance would have to be stored on more robust connections.

Now, the concept: first of all, this is a PK game. When you join the game, you arrive as a "freeman" - you pick your starting selections (depending on the gamestyle, that might be class, race, stats, whatever - details). You are not affiliated with any faction, simply owning your own. You arrive in one of many Temples, which are the spawn locales - they are the non-combat zones - everyone in there is unarmed and invulnerable. At this point you may try to a) build a team from other people or b) join a larger faction. The system is similar to standard Cube's teamplay, except that a) teams are despotic - their founder is in charge, and b) you may only join a team if invited by a founder or one of his appointed lieutenants. Individual players may enable and disable team-damage at will, and killing the team-leader will let you take his place as the ruler of a team, even if you were not previously a member of said team. Team leaders may kick any member of a team off of a team, and lieutenants may kick off any non-lieutenants. At any time a player may leave his team to found a new one, or join an existing team if invited. Thus, backstabbing is encouraged - you may take control by killing the team leader, or you may quickly form a competing faction to a previous team by forming a new team and inviting some of your cohorts into it. So, treason, etc. is part of the game and designed in.

Now, the objective: the only freely available respawn points are in temples. Temples have many exits, both public and hidden, so that leaving them shouldn't be too much of a spawncamp. Alternately there are castles, which work like nodes from UT2k4 - you take a castle standard and thus your team owns the castle and can then spawn there. Ultimately there is the Palace. The palace contains the throne, which is the ultimate objective of the game - whichever team controls the throne is racking up victory points, which represent how successful your team is. The leader of the royal team is the King, and they are getting double. So, there is incentive for everyone in the game to kill the king, but to balance that he has powers beyond those of normal players.

Victory points could come from other thigns as well, such as killing large monsters or important players, or maybe just getting some points to compensate for being a late joiner. Note that victory points aren't experience points - they determine who's the "winner" - not what goodies and powers you get.

So, we have a free-form Domination structure. Next, we base it in a traditional FPS/RPG setting - the landscape is dotted with monsters, ruins, crap like that to explore, so small teams of adventurers can go freelancing and collect stuff and level up, without having to worry overmuch about running into the higher level players. Equipment is divided into two categories - personal items, such as armour, charms, and small hand weapons, and heavy equipment, such as large weapons, shields, etc. Heavy equipment breaks easily and wears out, so it must take constant attention and it comes and goes quickly. Personal items last long, but tend to be weaker. THe idea is that you lose the heavy equipment when you die, but it comes and goes easily, so its not a big deal. Personal items are much trickier to lose, like skills and levels. Things, or specially powered players, can steal them, but its not easy.

The King gets special abilities to damage players to their more sensitive parts (skills, levels, etc) to discourage dissent. Remember, the King can be dethroned two ways - he can be killed and supplanted by an enemy or teammate, or his team can lose the Throne. Plus, the Royal team has another incentive not to infight to much: while they're bickering, someone could take the Throne.

Finally, the lay of the land is such that the best pickings are around the castles - the Palace has heavy artillery to defend her, but not much opportunity for self-improvement. The temples are based in newbie-land. So teams, (or even individuals) do well to find and take the castles and hold them as a base of operations from which to adventure, and hope that a clever thief doesn't sneak in and take it from them while they're out.

Because of the game's focus on defense, hiring and controlling monsters/guards would be a good feature.

And of course, just for the epic-dragonslaying - all the castles/palaces start out guarded by somewhat powerful creatures, so players have to clear them out before claiming them.

Just reset the game once a week, or even every few hours to keep it fresh.

If your wondering where I got the idea for such a mean, backstabbing game, play Munchkin - its a card-game RPG about levelling up and backstabbing your teammates. Also has good balance ideas - the most powerful players are obviously so, and are winning, so losers tend to gang up against them. Also, the weakest players automatically get everyone else's discards. Just food for thought.

This was just a twisted idea I put together from the stuff that players have mentioned about Cube and Sauer.

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#1: sounds cool

by jcdpc@school on 05/03/2004 19:17

like a giant king-of-the-hill match. sounds cool.

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#2: yeah...

by Pxtl on 05/03/2004 19:27

Oh, forgot my usual caveat - its just a random thought. Don't take it seriously if you don't want to. Stuff just pops in there and I like to flood forums with crap like that.

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#3: Re: yeah...

by jcdpc@school on 05/03/2004 19:31, refers to #2

it's a good idea, just it might be little hard to implement, maybe if you did something like my open-ended map system idea, it could be done, but a class system and stuff would be hard to do, If your serious about this idea, i'll do what i can to help you with it, but i'm just learning c (printf "hello world";) and you will need a programmer to do somethin like this.

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#4: No - I wasn't serious about this idea..

by Pxtl on 05/03/2004 19:40

I was just thinking ahead to the possibilities of what Sauer could be, when the engine is further along. It was just a random concept to generate discussion, one of many possible directions to head in.

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#5: Another thought:

by Pxtl on 05/03/2004 20:32

If the victory points were divided up equally among those who owned the throne (with the King getting the biggest piece tho), then the leaders of the royal clan would have serious incentive to thin their ranks of treacherous and useless people, who could then go and form their own competing faction.

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#6: ..

by SystM_H no. 2 on 05/03/2004 21:54

lol, cube MMO... I have been playing with exactly the same idea for quite a while now, and it would be possible with some minor source modification. I\\\'ve actually been working some 512x512 maps that tile with one another to create a large outdoor world with caves that link to underground dungeons & towns in which the doors on the houses link to maps that represent the interior of the building. the whole world would be an ambitious 88-map grid for the outdoor environment and several submaps for dungeons & interiors.

but my ideas are just pertaining to the creating of a large persistant world and linking it together online

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#7: I'm not sure if this applies...

by e:n:i:g:m:a on 05/03/2004 23:45

..

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#8: I'm not sure if this applies...

by e:n:i:g:m:a on 05/03/2004 23:47

I'm not sure if this applies, but...

You can (or could) set up doors in houses, caves, etc. with invisible triggers that open new maps when you go in them. The only thing missing is a way to make the player spawn in a specific location... :(

Anyway, could be modded in tho

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#9: Re: I'm not sure if this applies...

by jcdpc on 05/03/2004 23:51, refers to #8

i've been playing around with my open-ended maps and i think it just might be possible to specify a spawn location, but it would require changeing the source codeand is something i'm not skilled enough to do, yet...

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#10: Re: I'm not sure if this applies...

by systmh on 05/04/2004 03:16, refers to #9

anything is possible with enough tenacity... and btw, that's how my maps work, with invisible triggers using the /map command. I just make the player spawn right smack in the middle of the next map, equidistant from the edges :P a rather crude way to work around it until someone tweaks the source

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#11: Re: I'm not sure if this applies...

by jcdpc on 05/04/2004 03:20, refers to #10

can i see your maps?

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#12: ..

by pushplay on 05/04/2004 03:36

I just gave it a quick read, and I think the most obvious problem is that treason leads to hurt feelings. It doesn't matter that it's just a game, it happens.

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#13: Re: hurt feelings

by Pxtl on 05/04/2004 14:57, refers to #12

Hmmph. PC gamers are wimps if they can't take a little good natured backstabbing. I've played tons of card and boardgames where that was the whole basis of the game.

Either way, it would be easy to fix to have a "no backstabbing" mode - remove teamdamage, and make it so that players can only change teams when in some safe, far neutral area like the temples, and in that case only when invited to do so. Change team kicking to be democratic.

Oh, and SystM, the Sauer was created witht the goal of becoming an RPG eventually. Cube is not, and unless someone else will, I think Aard will not be touching Cube much once Sauer gets far enough to replace its feature set. I would look into Aard's plans before getting too far into developing your megamap in Cube.

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#14: Re: hurt feelings

by jcdpc@suckyschoolcomputer on 05/04/2004 19:08, refers to #13

backstabbing is what would make it fun. to have political intrigue in a rpg. its just a game. if people can't distingush fantsy from reality. they need serious pshyahatric help. I think most people in the cube community are would be ok with backstabbing, and i dont think the game would ever get big enough for that problem. thats the good thing about having a relatilvy small group of players.

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#15: Yeah...

by Pxtl on 05/04/2004 19:29

Plus, there are ways to make it clear that this is an individually-minded game. Like having only individual scores, winners, scoreboards, etc, and not team scores.

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#16: Re: hurt feelings

by SystM_H no. 2 on 05/04/2004 21:17, refers to #13

oh, my megamap as you call it is just for fun and curiosity. It's not so serious that I'd be upset if future versions of the engine didn't support it; it's just and experiment and will probably never come anywhere near completion

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#17: Re: hurt feelings

by Thalion on 05/05/2004 23:42, refers to #14

This all somehow kinda reminds me of Morrowind. Guess I shouldn't play it 10 hours a day =)

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#18: Re: hurt feelings

by jcdpc on 05/06/2004 00:20, refers to #17

ha morrowind's cool. but it gets boring towards the end when your level 50 and everything you see dies when you stare at hard enough. Thats one thing i like about cube. for some reason it never gets boring.

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#19: Re: hurt feelings

by Aardappel on 05/06/2004 02:16, refers to #13

don't make plans around what I plan. Where cube & sauerbraten go depends on so many things, you can't speak of a fixed plan. Make your own plans and do cool stuff.

Part of the reason of the way sauerbraten is set up is to make it a community which is less dependant on me for progress. I will still be there to guide/design, but if it happens that I am unavailable for several months (as has happened often with Cube), I shouldn't be the bottleneck.

I personally want to make an RPG with sauerbraten, that what is ideal for and in a sense designed for. But that shouldn't hold anyone back... the way I see it, is that first comes the engine, then a copy of the cube gameplay (as its already in there pretty much), then get started on an RPG. at this point people can fork to do their own stuff based of the engine if they want, and they would have a great base to work from.

Nothing is set in stone.

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#20: Re: hurt feelings

by _Gilt on 05/06/2004 15:41, refers to #19

that's pretty much what I'm planning. as much as I like aard, I'm not helping out with sauerbraten for purely altruistic reasons. imo, when it comes to projects like this, people cannot be reliant on others for their motivation or much else, otherwise it's doomed.

In the past I've gotten a few requests from people to make maps for their mod or whatever, which I've regected -- at least I did when I was smart. Cause, if I don't really give a shit about it-- if I don't really think that it is MY project in some way, then when push comes to shove, I'm most likely not going to do a whole hell of a lot.

Right now I see a great oppurtunity to make a game that I've been thinking about for a while now. and I really feel that this engine fits my ideology, and has an awesome foundation already built-- So here I am.

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