Cube 3? Cube 2? WTF?!?

by Deehy on 09/29/2008 13:30, 40 messages, last message: 10/28/2008 02:13, 11440 views, last view: 05/18/2024 21:20

Will be Cube 3?
In CVS of Cube 2 are no serious changes! Only some simple code/shaders/maps changes. IT'S 5-7 MONTHS!!! How much time still for release next Sauerbraten version?

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#17: Re: Singleplayer depth

by tentus_ on 10/01/2008 15:46, refers to #16

Ok, so on the Quin-Mitaman challenge, I'm going to resume work on an SP map I gave up on a long time ago (anyone remember the Ogro language I devised?)

Before I get too deep back in the project, I have an open question for demosthenes and the other philosophers in the community: given that the map I'm working on is striving to capture the feel of ICO, what could be done to deepen that experience? While ICO was a fantastic game and I love it to pieces, the replay value is not a strength: I can only play the game about once a year (unless I'm practicing for a speed run). What could I do to capture the feel of ICO but make it more replayable and, in theory, deep?

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#18: Re: ..

by Maxime "Max of S2D" Lebled on 10/01/2008 17:31, refers to #15

Seconded.

Anyways, I wonder what Cube 3 could bring... just improving Cube 2 is enough. :p

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#19: ..

by Osbios on 10/01/2008 17:48

The connection between the script language and the game is too incomplete.

I think this is one of the reason why there are just a few single player maps.

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#20: Re: Singleplayer depth

by demosthenes on 10/01/2008 18:59, refers to #17

Singleplayer depth is a tricky one. ICO's case looks like a particularly tricky one. It appears to me to be a basically linear storyline, where the player must complete certain actions in a certain order to attain objectives.

One of the simplest ways to expand the depth of a game done in that style (if it is in fact strictly linear) is to construct your castle in such a way that the puzzles can be completed in order as normal, but also be skipped through if the player is clever/observant enough. This method is hard to find a balance with.

I can be of more help with the depth problem if you can provide a bit more information about why it doesn't replay well for you.

ICO sounds like a great game! I'm having trouble figuring out how well it can be transliterated to Sauer, though. From what I read of the storyline, you have some serious challenges ahead of you!

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#21: Re: ..

by scanf on 10/01/2008 19:03, refers to #19

Cube makes it very easy to add to the script language. In the case of Eisenstern we have created probably more script than code. Eisenstern is basically running from script. This could be done with sauer. I have to admit I did not know the power of cube script until contributing to Eisenstern.

Although new goodies have been added to SP over the last few years I'd agree that there has been a lack of interest in it. My first experience with Cube was SP and I played all the campaigns before moving to MP.

If you really look at the facts there are probably 40 people max on the servers at anytime playing MP. This a solid figure we know about. We don't know how many people play in SP mode it could be more than MP.

There are a few projects going on that could add some really nifty features to the SP game. I hope to see some of them integrated into the engine soon :)

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#22: Re: Singleplayer depth

by Quin on 10/02/2008 10:13, refers to #17

I haven't even played ICO, but I am quite amused at the queer direction this thread took :P I myself am mapping more than coding recently, but I can't show them off on Quadropolis because they're apart of BF SVN as soon as I make them :(

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#23: ..

by Acord on 10/02/2008 10:23

Oddly enough, there are two ways to achieve depth in a game.

1) Randomization. Random levels(rogue), monsters that are there on play through and not the next, random pieces(for tetris etc.), random letters(chicktionary, bookworm) and so on ad infinitum

2) An incredibly detailed and well crafted world. I am still for some randomization though, or perhaps something that causes levels to need to be solved in different ways each time they're played.

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#24: ..

by SephoD on 10/02/2008 11:23

..

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#25: Re: ..

by -Redon- on 10/02/2008 18:24, refers to #16

Im working on a SP map, but im a very slow editor :P
So it might take some time to finish it^^

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#26: Re: ..

by demosthenes on 10/02/2008 23:25, refers to #23

It seems to me that there is really rather more of a continuum there, between the two.

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#27: i am new

by john5422 on 10/03/2008 03:48

sry but how do you even play the game in the first place?

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#29: Multiplayer Depth

by aviynw on 10/13/2008 07:29

I think having objectives like those found in games like enemy territory would add a lot of depth to the multi-player gameplay.

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#30: ..

by MisanthropX on 10/13/2008 21:54

im workin too on SP maps (ive got already 2 sps running)
well the problem is.. im often very very uncreative offline.. and sp coop isnt possible online ._. well.. i guess the question came in tons of threads before but... why is no \"sp\" in \"mp\" possible?
dudes that would be soo cool..
that ure able to create a \"sp\" map together.. (with all the monsters, triggers etc)
and a whiteboard (cfg file for all of the server) so you can script together and do all the triggers on this \"whiteboard\"

also it would be cool if you can edit AND play these sp\'s together. dude i often dreamed about that =P (literaly xD) and i guess smth like that would REALLY increase depth of game.

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#31: Re: ..

by hotmitts on 10/16/2008 19:45, refers to #30

I only just discovered this game, I've been searching around for a little while for good open source moddable games, and it took me a while to stumble across this, for some reason.
I'm really impressed with the engine, of course, and it would be great to see a single-player campaign with saveable stats/items between maps...I do think that'd be popular actually

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#32: just build it

by kurtis84 on 10/21/2008 01:06, refers to #31

SP is a lot of work people. It's one thing to spend a few hours on a MP map, but SP takes commitment....I should know, with 2 SP maps I might never finish. Then there are the lack of entities...Sauer can do a SP map, but only in the spirit of quake1 SP...and even for that it lacks a few things last time I checked.

Kurt

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#33: ..

by mrpiddly_000003 on 10/21/2008 01:54

On the note of sp mapping, would anyone be interested in a community mapping effort to develop large single player and rpg maps for sauerbraten? (not entirely through coedit)

I have been considering the idea for a while now, and I think I may have devised a "simple" way for the community to contribute to, and eventually piece together, extremely large sp/rpg maps.

I am just wondering if there is any real interest here. If there is, I will provide some more details about my plan and I would love to hear from other community members on the subject as well.

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#34: Re: ..

by freferferf on 10/21/2008 14:26, refers to #33

'Large' maps built with 'other people' are just a couple of upfront excuses for never finishing, or even starting.

Start small, and build quick. Be able to show something even if it's not epic. Why not take small MP maps, and stitch them together to build an SP map?

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#35: Re: ..

by mrpiddly_000003 on 10/21/2008 23:23, refers to #34

Here are a few key points where i disagree:

Sp/rpg require extremely large amounts of work if they are to be done correctly. This amount of work is rather uncommon in noncommercial games such as sauerbraten. Multiple people essential divide and conquer this daunting task.

Each designer has a different "specialty". One person may be a scripting stud, but others may be great at designing the base geometry of a level. These combinations of skills increases the overall quality of a map and allow for people to work on the one aspect of a map that they enjoy.

Each designer also has as different perspective. Ask two people what a city of the future looks like and they will provide you with very different visions. With a loose theme in place and multiple designers working around this theme, the level's environment will reflect each of their visions. This makes each area of the level feel unique and makes a large level more realistic.

Multiple designers provide a backup redundancy system for maps. When one person tries to design a map on they own, see NYC, they usually just give up after a while. Not only would multiple designers reduce work load per person, but they would also prevent maps from just slipping into inactivity and obscurity. The different levels of contributions would also work as an advantage. Some users may spend 4 hours a day working on sections of the map while others will contribute a model of a trash can and be done.

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#36: Re: ..

by freferferf on 10/22/2008 14:39, refers to #35

that all sounds ok.

then i guess the only question left is, when are you going to start?

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#37: Re: ..

by mrpiddly_000003 on 10/23/2008 01:32, refers to #36

I do not necessarily have to start this since anyone else with initiative could take some of my ideas and run with them, but this is far to idealistic.

After I complete some documentation and setting up the necessary resources, I shall provide information to the community. There is no telling when exactly this will be.

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