/getmap feature in all modes! ?

by sldfjsdlfjsldfjlsnc,mxnm,vnlkesjfkjld on 07/13/2008 23:20, 41 messages, last message: 07/19/2008 08:32, 16042 views, last view: 05/04/2024 22:38

Hey, why can't you add that /getmap in all mode's or better autogetmap. That would be a really nice feature for mappers if the server can store map(s!) and if the client dont has the map then client sends a signal to the server and as response you get it from the server.

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#22: Re: ..

by jbuk2k7s cookie has gone on 07/16/2008 17:57, refers to #21

How can you try to be ignorant?

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#23: ..

by scanf on 07/16/2008 18:34

WOW. I guess this is a clash of interests. Everyone has their own ideas about how maps should be distributed but I do agree with {QS} on this one.

Quadropolis is a good way to show off your map but is not ideal. There is too much content on there to sift through.

There are usually only 3/4 releases of the project a year. This leaves maps hanging around waiting to be added and in some cases forgotten about.

Having a /getmap option is really controlled by server admins. If they dislike a map they do not have to add it to there server. It gives users a chance to play new maps when they are released and not have to wait upto six months for them to be added to the distribution.

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#24: Re: ..

by Quin on 07/17/2008 07:05, refers to #18

Wasn't me who did it.

Quadropolis is booming compared to how it was 2 years ago, but I always agree there is room for improvement, hence the proposal I have been making.

In the end I know I'm going to have to do it myself if it is ever going to get done, but if the community is so vocal about this then really they should probably participate so it gets done right.

Personally, I'm quite tired of all the complaining from people who aren't willing to work with everyone else and pitch in for the common good of the community.

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#25: Which path?

by a~baby~rabbit on 07/17/2008 08:09

What do people want:

1/ Quadrapolis 'tweaked' a little, i.e. http://www.cubeengine.com/forum.php4?action=display_thread&thread_id=1813 so that some url package suck, unzip, and run becomes trivially automated.

2/ getmap that sucks down the map and all its dependent assets (I assume a sendmap too) where the junk is stored on the particular server you connect to to play on.

IMHO 1) looks like a far easier path - getmap could be 4 lines of C within a sauer command that can call out to curl and unzip and adds the result to the list of package directories... Finally a centralised server like quadrapolis has the great advantage that some vetting/voting takes places so I don't have to play on a map designed by sugar fueled colorblind coopedit hamster with no arms...

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#26: Re: Which path?

by Mr.Piddly 00000001 on 07/17/2008 17:33, refers to #25

When using option one, how would security be addressed?

Would content only be available from Quadrapolis, or could it download from any URL? And if maps were only available from Quadrapolis, would they be downloadable immediately?

Also, how would the contents of a downloaded file be analyzed? What would prevent someone from sending unwanted or malicious material?



For option two, would torrents work to reduce server loads?

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#27: Re: Which path?

by MovingTarget on 07/17/2008 17:41, refers to #26

Did you read my initial post? Maps would only be available from Quadropolis. There would be a command that does the packaging for you, so in theory it would be a lot harder to add malicious stuff; plus, there is a command that does unpackaging, so it's very hard to execute something bad on someone else's computer. And yes they would be downloadable immediately.

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#28: ..

by Osbios on 07/17/2008 18:00

Splitting the upload so that a new player downloads tiny chunks from all users and the server could create a usable download rate.
You just have to make it so small for each player that it wont decrease the network performance for the game. Best way would be a variable upload for each player/his internet connection.

To make sure you don't get trash from other clients you get a list of chunk checksums directly from the server. (That would be like bit torrent)

This system is limited to the maps/files on the server and therefore you can't get any modified data from other clients.

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#29: Re: ..

by SheeEttin on 07/17/2008 18:08, refers to #28

Hmm. I think a torrent-style system would get too complicated.
Maps aren't really that big. Would it be that hard to just do a direct download?

Also, why are we only limiting this to maps the server has? The server has very little to do with the map. Its job has generally just been coordination.
Just open it up to all maps on Quadropolis. Anything malicious would probably get spotted pretty quickly.

Of course, there should be a setting to disable this behavior (or a GUI that pops up that requires you to hit "yes" to get the map, e.g. "you don't have this map, try to get it from Quadropolis?").

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#30: why cant i use the maps?

by deathbal101 on 07/17/2008 19:20

why cant i use the maps in vote? they are in the packages thing but it womnt work WTF!?!?!

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#31: Re: why cant i use the maps?

by jbuk2k7s cookie has gone on 07/17/2008 19:46, refers to #30

/mode modenumberoralias;map mapname

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#32: Re: why cant i use the maps?

by jbuk2k7s cookie has gone on 07/17/2008 19:46, refers to #31

But then again, unless other people have the map it won't work.

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#33: Re: ..

by {Qs}Homicidal on 07/17/2008 23:21, refers to #24

Personally, I\'m quite tired of all the complaining from people who aren\'t willing to work with everyone else and pitch in for the common good of the community.

mmm wat do you call the forum I setup :P

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#34: Re: ..

by tentus_ on 07/18/2008 00:36, refers to #33

That's not so much "pitching in" so much as "striking out", in the pioneering sense of the phrase. Going off and doing things counter to the general direction of the community is not contributory, it's called doing your own thing.

---

Torrented maps doesn't sound like a good system to me, given the size of the community: for the amount of work it'd take to make it work, I just can't see enough gain.

I like the idea of the server just being a coordinator to Quadropolis. If you don't have the map coming up, the server just looks up the appropriate link for you and you confirm it. The zip is downloaded and auto-unpacked, and everyone walks away happy.

The biggest snag is, of course, improper packaging. There'd pretty much have to be a script on Quad that would check the zip to see if the ogz etc is in the right place, otherwise the map doesn't get some kind of star or something that 1) acts as a simple, clear way of getting mappers to package better, and 2) tells the engine that the map is ready for auto-unpacking.

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#35: Re: ..

by MovingTarget on 07/18/2008 00:46, refers to #34

..or someone could implement my idea before I do, and no more packaging woes. Shameless plug, I know :-)

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#36: Re: ..

by SheeEttin on 07/18/2008 00:56, refers to #34

A little while back, I suggested forgoing having the user package the map entirely, and have the user just upload the OGZ, CFG, etc., and let Quad package it.

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#37: ..

by Quin on 07/18/2008 08:30

Well, I was assigned to maintain Quadropolis and I'm here totally agreeing with most of these ideas. So when I say pitch in, I'm looking for people who want to pursue this idea. BF A2 is almost done and I'll be looking at this alot more seriously in the coming weeks.

Again, for anyone who missed it elsewhere: http://groups.google.com/group/quad-adm/browse_thread/thread/8476d3d9f5ad8f78

It's only gonna get better if someone puts in the work, and I'm willing to do it, but I'm not about to start another one man show.

I've already set up a Sourceforge project for this too at http://sourceforge.net/projects/quadropolis and will perhaps set up an IRC channel if people wish to discuss and develop in realtime with others.

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#38: Problem

by Megagun_ on 07/18/2008 14:31

Big problem I see here is that Sauerbraten doesn't differentiate between configuration lines that influence the map, and configuration lines that influence the player's configuration..

What needs to be done, in my opinion, is splitting the map-configuration files from the user-configuration files. That is, no more 'texture 0 N lol.bmp' lines, but rather put this texture loading data in some other file, in perhaps another format (with maybe some extra data together with it, like texture MD5sums) that is written by Sauerbraten, instead of yourself..... Perhaps this data can be put inside the .ogz, too (or in a seperate .ogc file).. This way, if you do a /getmap, the client will check all the MD5sums and compare them with the files you have. Once all the comparing is made, a list will appear that shows the texture names, their licences, and the ability to tick/untick those to download them if you want to (or keep the file you already have if you have a file with the file's name already, but with a different MD5sum)

Perhaps, if the game asks for 'lol/pie.png' with md5sum
9cdfb439c7876e703e307864c9167a15, but your 'lol/pie.png' has md5sum 763cb4e2713e274153b4eb7d0453d564, it'll look into the 'data/md5s' folder and see if file '9cdfb439c7876e703e307864c9167a15.dat' exists there. If it does, it'll load it. If it doesn't, it'll download it and place it there...

This way, you can have multiple versions of maps without them breaking eachother...

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#39: Re: ..

by MovingTarget on 07/18/2008 18:48, refers to #37

Just want to let you know that I've stopped development on my plugin interface and commenced work on a Python prototype encompassing my packaging ideas. Once I get the Python side done, I'll do some very high level Python embedding (anything lower than that is, oh, rather difficult) in Sauerbraten and mesh the two together.

One of the reasons I'm using Python is because I find using zlib quite hard (can you recommend any good tutorials?)

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#40: Re: ..

by Quin on 07/19/2008 06:03, refers to #39

Umm, not really. What I learnt about zlib all came out of working with Cube and Sauer.

In BF I have half way solved the cfg/map thing, by having the engine write out the cfg, mapshot, and map gz itself. It is far from being any sort of working prototype for packaging yet though.

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#41: Re: ..

by fhdsjkconorfhskjd on 07/19/2008 08:32, refers to #33

I call the forum you set up "off topic in this thread."

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