CTF POLL

by ACCESSGRANTED on 05/11/2008 01:37, 38 messages, last message: 05/20/2008 21:53, 5678 views, last view: 05/02/2024 17:39

ok heres a poll currently in the CVS the minimap/radar shows Enemy flag carriers Position.
for HARD core ctf fans this is bad it means you can no longer hide and wait for your flag to return and it allows the other team to easily find you. and take there flag back.

personly I am very against this as its kind of cheating in my book it takes away some of the tactics you might use to win the game and that is part of what makes true ctf appealing
so all i ask is that to consider this

and replay to this post with a "yes keep it the way it is' or a no "change it so the enemy flag carrier is not shown on the radar"
let let the community decide this one

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#19: Re: ..

by SheeEttin on 05/19/2008 04:29, refers to #15

Kinda encourages camping, doesn't it?

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#20: ..

by ACCESS{-}DENIED on 05/19/2008 04:50

yea but that's part of ctf wat you call camping i call tactics :D
part of ctf's appeal is that it is a slower paced mode you need to be more mythical in your moves with as it stands it will just be ffa with flags =/

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#21: Re: ..

by tentus_ on 05/19/2008 04:58, refers to #20

"Mythical"? Please put a bit more effort into your posts.

I think yo haven't beta'd this enough. In a large map (and CTF maps tend to be large) you pretty much have to either have a couple of guys covering you or someone to hand off too when you die. It's so easy to take a flag carrier down that it encourages people to make group runs. Also known as teamwork.

Teamwork = tactics.

Hiding in a hole != tactics.

I feel like a flag carrier hunkering down and not moving is very undesirable. I want to play a CTF mode where the flag carrier has to run like hell and talk to his teammates in order to coordinate a rush that will actually succeed. The "tactics" that you're proposing can be carried out without a single iota of communication, not even nonverbals.

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#22: Tactics?

by Quin on 05/19/2008 05:21

You shoot stuff, the end.

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#23: team work tand he future of sauerbraten

by ACCESS{-}DENIED on 05/19/2008 06:27

\"You shoot stuff, the end.\"
yea I got the feeling this would be a
uphill battle with the hard core SAUERnauts I know sauer has allays been if it moves shoot it style but I think the slower pace of ctf may just be what the doctor ordered
I am the kind of player that can play sauer for 3-4 5 min rounds and say ok this gets old wat else is there to make me wanna keep playing. ctf does just that it FORCES you to stop and think wait if I go charging out there GUNS blazing not only will i get fragged but the whole team takes a hit

I guss this all go\'s back to teamwork vrs team play you have a team based mode but you have people so wound up in there kill ratio and don\'t take the time to explore how much FUN working as a team can be from the few rounds of ctf I played when you get people working as a team its BLAST been knows to YELL GO\'S AS the clock ticks away and the team mat comes by in the last second grabs it and scores

/me go\'s out on a limb
some people love the PURE fragg or be frag style thats why i picked this up but then after months of playing that game I realized that this GETS OLD after 10 rounds of of mindless fragging ctf brings order and a whole new level and depth of play to sauer I think there should be more modes that give the players a opportunity to see how much fun working fighting and wining and or loseing as a team can be this is just a case of a good game mode that don\'t need changing getting SAUERIZED for the masses altho this is just my point of view is beggs the question
can cube 2 be more then just a mindless shooter where the one who can still aim after 10+ rounds of fraggages is consider the best of can it become a a truly great shooter \"this way sauer was ranked so low in that post a while ago lack of original play ideas\" its just another mindless shooter a genre thats flooded gaming scene lately both URT and nexuiz warsow ow there success to the team work stly of game that that are I am not saying sauer should try to be like that I am just saying keep that door open

now before you all go off on me saying well if you don\'t like sauer\'s style don\'t play it go play battle field 2 or unreal III think about this team work is FUN its the most fun you can have in any game
and think about the impact on team work keeping the radar as is it may just be one of those Oo wait the flag guy needs help NM I can get 1 more point if I ignore him and kill those guys and let him die i don\'t care if the team loses as long as I win or it could be hey lets all hunt the flag guy down while his team does other things

\"please excuse the typos I correct as many as i can :P\"
ZOMG long post

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#24: Re: team work tand he future of sauerbraten

by tentus_ on 05/19/2008 06:52, refers to #23

Wow. I know that my brain kinda craps out on me at night and my grammar falls all to heck, but yours is... you've got 2 periods in there for crying out loud, one of which is in a quote!

I like that you're trying to encourage discussion on this subject, but your arguments are really hard to follow. Remember, if it's hard to read, people just won't. They'll ignore what you are saying and keep going. I'm trying to analyze your post so I can respond to the individual points, but it's kinda difficult (not to mention frustrating).

You mention several times that you think Sauer should avoid being a straight shooter-em-up in favor of being more varied, to somehow circumvent the flooded FPS genre. I get the point, but I think your solution is backwards. Think back to all the really awesome, innovative games that have come out in recent memory. Most of them chose a single play mechanic and focussed on it 100%, cutting out everything else in favor of streamlining their strengths.

If we follow the logic that "playing your strong points will make you stand out from the crowd" as opposed to trying to do everything and being pretty meh in all of it, we can see a pretty clear path for Sauer. More modes that play even faster. I've been watching the development of Fallen Empire: Legions a lot recently, and it seems to me that it's sharing Sauer's path. Play faster on lower specs than your average FPS. We might be borrowing concept from Fallen Empire sometime soon, just like we've borrowed from Quake and UT.

Logically, Sauer's CTF should stay in this "faster/lighter" mindset and actually look for ways to be even more Sauer than it is already. How can we infuse more of the mindset of Sauer into the gametype, rather than trying to water it out?

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#25: Re: team work tand he future of sauerbraten

by a~baby~rabbit on 05/19/2008 07:44, refers to #25

Can I just add that so far in the few games I've played of CTF (as per CVS) I've been impressed at the teamwork that quickly evolves.

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#26: ..

by ACCESS{-}DENIED on 05/19/2008 08:04

~time to lay my cards on the table and go for broke :}~
yes I am fully aware that my grammar and spelling sucks "don't need reminding of that " :P
anyway yes I feel that alto the goal of sauer has always been "so I am told' is a PURE Fragg or be fragg style and that's it thats not bad thing BUT that style is a dieing art and even those sauer does it very nicely,
but after playing other open source shooter's Nexuiz URT I can't help but think of that best or worse rated fps poll and why sauer placed the way it did,
part of the reason for past actions by me is that I seem to get the feeling sauer is headed down the road to a one trick pony deal " due to a "censored name here's" vision that is all well and great its THERE game and there hobby they may do as they see fit but on the other hand, as player and life gamer I see,

less and less of the frag or be fragg style and more of the fragg save the day score and fight for the objective types.
T think the cube 2 engine could blow WAY beyond all others 'with it UNEQUALED editing and modding capabilities if it found a way to keep the ones that wan't the old skooll shooter with the ones that want something more "with out starting my own littel mod core" but instead pooling my ideas where they can be used most I am fully Aware that the dev team is Under powered under staffed and under appreciated BUT... the more players you can tap the more chance of someone saying "Hey love wat your doing need some help ?".

I love the fast pacedness as much as the next guy but I think that something needs to change not sure wat take the EFF mod by dazza its great he put a lot of work into making it balanced and fun sadely it was forced off the master server and he as not the time or the resources to make a FULL blown mod/

so here is my idea how about a ID style game model sauerbraten/devteam gives the resources and the core game play but has things like Cvar and scripts and hard coded server side goodies that allow the server op and player chose wat kind of game they wanna play and HUGE step toward this would be FULL client/server cube script support "a lot of work i know"
in the end it comes down to a game is not only for the people that enjoy making it as a hobby of job or just for the hell of it, its also for those who play it and I think the ones who play and give it real life should come first
I am happy for us finally getting our way :D and getting ctf I don't wanna step on any toe's but I must say wat is said above as i believe it 150%

sincerely ...
unnamed :D
ATIRULE
InstaPwnT
{Qs}Homicidal
ACCESS{-}Granted
ACCESS{-}DENIED
any another aliases i forgot to add :P as well as all those who have wasted there life playing sauer for days with out sleep food drink and regrettably bathroom breaks :P

.hack/troll~Complete. end of line
new line . . . ?

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#27: ..

by ACCESS{-}DENIED on 05/19/2008 08:06

as for babbit rabbit yes I love the quickly thinks got teamed and people change from KILL'em all to KILL the enemy

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#28: ..

by ACCESS{-}DENIED on 05/19/2008 08:18

correction{the way things got teamed up so quickly}

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#29: ENOUGH

by ACCESS{-}DENIED on 05/19/2008 08:57

I have had it with the off comments on my grammar and or spelling

as for people discounting my post's on a count of poor grammar or spelling
steven hawking was a cripple and was one of the worlds most intellectual and brilliant people on the face of the crumbling rock we call planet earth

~I may be a hypocritical son of a bitch but I know of wat I speak" now will you hear me or fall into the oblivion that is stupidity ,Ignorance,and a closed mind~

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#30: ..

by ACCESS{-}DENIED on 05/19/2008 09:01

show your enemy your weakness and you take away his power to use it against you

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#31: ..

by scasd on 05/19/2008 19:16

CTF feels more like capture with only two bases which are moving. I like it so far. Maybe just split the mode up ?

You could have old-school CTF where flag-carriers are able to hide and CTB (capture the base) where the flag-carrier regenerates his allies while the enemy have to go and take ammo/health somewhere else in the level (placed by the map maker). The regeneration feature also works for the home-base as long as its not captured. Scoring is just like normal CTF: go to your home base and touch down.

The base only will return if one team scores. If someone drops the flag it remains until the enemy takes it again. So the bases (flags) come closer and closer until one team scores and one or perhaps both bases return.

So you have old-school CTF and a brand new (uber) cool mode which adds even more fun to Sauerbraten.

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#32: ..

by ACCESS{-}DENIED on 05/19/2008 20:21

now that I think about of the the motion detection idea, it would solve both issues if a remain still I can't be seen
but if I starting moving a lot running shooting jumping I am going to be seen anyway so then I can be detected on the radar also my HUD should show if I am visible 2 the enemy or not and then we have the issue this would limit the places i can hunker down with the flag if needed as I need to move to get there and it would not take a super brainy act to look at there radar and see where i am going not in favor of camping persay but its part for tactics I know the idea may not sit well with hard core players but ... I think once all the wineing and moneing over it aww man this is gonna suck is 2 slow they will find its fun

and I would place a good bet a lot of the sauer plays have never played a real game of ctf or even know how its suppose to flow or be played IE " scasd"

and have never played Unreal nexuiz Urban terror or quake III
so there just assuming that having the radar will make everything easier 'less camping ect" and so are the people making the game :(
I think may have the opposite effect
they know where I am I am low on hp and ammo I am gonna find the safest spot IE near a group of team mates and WAIT for the flag to come back or chance to move and get armor hp and ammo

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#33: Re: team work tand he future of sauerbraten

by SheeEttin on 05/19/2008 21:15, refers to #25

> So I really saw the need for a mode where you did the opposite: you spend the majority of time chasing after things or evading things, always on the move.

Sounds more like assassin than CTF to me.

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#34: Re: ..

by tman_elite on 05/19/2008 21:29, refers to #32

It sounds to me like you have more of a problem with the players than with the game. If your teammates use good tactics and teamwork, then you shouldn't be left alone surrounded and without hp or armor. Your complaint seems more about people going for kills instead of captures and less about the game itself.

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#35: ..

by ACCESS{-}DENIED on 05/19/2008 22:33

I have issue with getting force fed more mindless stuff just to feed the few that are so Obsessed with the kill ratio that's direct result of classic modes getting "changed" so the n00bs will keep quite "I hold high hopes for blood frontier"
as I said there needs to be more modes that induce team work and greater depths of play and more depth of play.
The days classic doom like shooters are sadly coming to a end HELL doom and quake have more depth then sauer has at least in doom you could crouch down traps doors that worked online stuff like

that tentus hit it right on the head
when he said I thought sauer can and should start to pull away from the MINDLESS EGO SHOOTER that it is but still keep that

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#36: Re: ..

by ACCESS{-}DENIED on 05/19/2008 22:37, refers to #35

I sure that this will never happen at least with the main stream sauer but
starting with adding more classic modes like ctf that are unmodified and true would drive more players to sauer
and proper triggers and server side cube script to allow the players to decide how they wan' there sauerbraten served would be a HUGE step

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#37: ..

by scasd on 05/20/2008 21:50

I would remember the place where the enemy flag carrier disappeared. You would not have any chance.

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#38: re 38

by ACCESS{-}DENIED on 05/20/2008 21:53

Exactly

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