Sauerbraten rated worst Open Source FPS?

by SanHolo on 12/30/2007 22:54, 131 messages, last message: 11/25/2017 23:24, 119239 views, last view: 05/16/2024 16:08, closed on 11/25/2017 23:38

There's an article over at Slashdot that links a report of linux-gamers.net which compared 7 open source shooters. Since the site is slashdotted ATM, all I can get from /. is the ranking: (best to worst) Warsow, Tremulous, World of Padman, Nexuiz, Alien Arena, OpenArena, and Sauerbraten.

I hope the site will be back online soon to see their arguments... :P

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#41: Re: hmm

by ZuurKool on 01/02/2008 21:50, refers to #36

One of the things i really like about sauer is the short time it takes to start up. It takes me about 15 seconds to load game and get on a server. I wouldn't slow this down on purpose.

An idea: I played steve_e's new SP map today (nice map btw). I can imagine using this trigger-storyline technique to make a welcome/tutorial map. The player is introduced to the game with a welcome-text at map-load. While walking through the map for the first time certain objects could trigger some basic instructions on how to play, edit, menu, teamskins(!) etc.
Maybe this could welcome a first-time player and guide him through his first insecure minutes ;)

For more experienced players it would be possible to turn this function off ofcourse.

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#42: Re: hmm

by steve_e on 01/02/2008 22:13, refers to #41

"I played steve_e's new SP map today (nice map btw)."

Thanks! :)

Another thing that makes the engine seem a little 'rough' is the documentation - with competition in the open source market to get the punters in I have noticed an increase in the quality of documentation as without it is difficult to get people to use your product. The thing with Sauer is that it is so easy to get into initially, but some things are still rather esoteric, and it is those things that are the bells & whistles of the development possibilities... Also lack of consistency with how colours are defined: RGB for some values, hex for others...

But of course, none of this is possible without someone actually rolling up their sleeves and making it happen in their spare time, which would be the hardest aspect of any polishing and improving.

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#43: Re: ..

by SheeEttin on 01/03/2008 00:13, refers to #16

Eh, what the heck. On to the bandwagon!

OpenArena - Haven't played it.
Alien Arena - Played it, didn't like the movement. Was too confusing.
Nexuiz - Couldn't get it working.
Padman - Doesn't look particularly interesting.
Tremulous - Never heard of it.
Warsow - Tried it, hated the art and gameplay.
Sauerbraten - Love it!

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#44: Re: hmm

by Aardappel_ on 01/03/2008 01:00, refers to #35

well, eisenstern is not meant to be polished at this stage.. more on that later. It is the fps that should make a better impression.

I am not sure on the loading screen. It clearly has a loading screen already, with progress bars, logo, and map screenie, not sure what more we can do there. Certainly artificially making it longer would be the dumbest thing ever. Having a logo before it goes into fullscreen... that takes all of 1 second.

As for anything relating to art or content... yup, there's nothing much we can do there easily. I am looking more for code related tweaks.

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#45: Re: hmm

by steve_e on 01/03/2008 01:39, refers to #44

I certainly wasn't suggesting making the loading artificially longer - I guess my point is with a program like photoshop it takes so damn long to load there has to be a fancy screen with fine print etc.

I think it is the layout and presentation of Sauer's loading screen - it hasn't got a big "look at me" factor about it - it is very minimalist, which I guess reflects the nature of a new map environment, but it is too minimalist IMHO.

I think the logo is great - it is strong and I love the orange and black. The Sauerbraten website also looks good even though it is reasonable minimalist in its design too, but it works as there is colour and variety, plus some text which might look like it would be interesting to read...

But, when loading Sauer, the focal point tends to be the map screen shot and then you notice the logo up the top. Then it loads and you are in the game. In that time, maybe a couple of seconds, it is not a strong statement that is being made.

One thing I learnt many years ago with design is that it is all about the presentation: an average idea presented very well will gain far more interest (and generally be accepted) than a great idea presented in an average manner.

So, it is that initial impression - a screen that loads quickly, but leaves that "I want to see that again" impression. Afterall, the demo maps are pretty polished examples however the loading screen doesn't really reflect the quality of the overall package.

Sorry for the rant ;)

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#46: Splash Screen

by carotennaro on 01/03/2008 03:04

@Aardappel

I think steve_e is referring to a "splash screen" more than a "loading screen". A splash screen is a fullscreen image, usually with a tech feel, with the game title on top in a fancy 3D style, a menu with options (something similar to the menu that appears when pressing "ESC" but less simplistic) and a background music, that appears after the game is loaded.

Here's a bare example of what I'm talking about: http://tinyurl.com/2ft4ya (the first image that I've found through Google).

Although I'm aware that the most of the wonted players of Sauer would find it redundant, it would, as opposite, help new players feeling "at home", with a friendly interface giving them a chance to customize the game settings *before* playing, rather than being forwarded in a 3D environment (metl4) without a "presentation", that, in terms of "corporate identity" would play a significant role, as effectively pointed out by steve_e.

What I meant, is that it would take a little step to give Sauer a more defined identity by adhering to certain standards (something that many Open Source softwares lack of, see the intricate, painful interface of "the Gimp", compared with the simple, and intuitive one of Photoshop). In this case, what you miss is just a start screen, because the quality of the game already stands out, IMHO.

I know that the main problem is the lack of volunteers, but on this case, just a fullscreen image with a "portrait" of Ironsnout, with graphics on the same style of the excellent built-in menus, would work.

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#47: agreed

by gilgamesh on 01/03/2008 03:55

I wholeheartedly agree with carotennaro. Booting into a splash screen with setup options and the usual menu would be more familiar for players who are unfamiliar with sauer. Going straight into metl4 can be disorienting for newbies: "am I in a game already? I didn't select anything..." Maybe a subdued demo video could play behind the normal menu on startup instead of a still picture...

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#48: Re: hmm

by kldsjf lconordfjdskl on 01/03/2008 04:15, refers to #34

Aard: That is exactly what I thought made it seem like a techdemo too.

Another thing, is when i starts up:

nVidia_texgen_bug on. 0 to disable
loaded packages/base/metl4.ogz (0.1)
Mining Station by metlslime


And, another thing, although not too much, is that you see all the texture files flashing by (their filenames) when the game loads. A simple, "Loading Textures... %60" would be good :)


Maybe by default, it wont display map load and those bug fixes (Apple, ATI, nVidia, Intel) but can still be activated with either a command line (We are running out of letters :D) or an in game command.

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#49: ..

by W4 (on his old computer) on 01/03/2008 04:16

If these features are implemented, please have an easy way to disable them as well. I like the way things are now.

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#50: hmm

by kldsjf lconordfjdskl on 01/03/2008 04:17

Another thing, talking about #47:

We already have demos, so there could be a demo of a match going on in the background on some map where it is easy to see all the action (Face-capture?).


And then we get to decide who is in the demo :)

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#51: Proof Of Concept

by carotennaro on 01/03/2008 04:24

Hi, I've thought to make a proof of concept of what I was talking about:

1) the game loads: just a small Sauer logo with a loading bar, both at the center of a black screen would be fine, to me.

2) After the loading ends, something similar to the following splash-screen appears: http://tinyurl.com/2yrpkz

Thanks gilgamesh for agreeing with me, although I think that a demo video would make the game too bloated. I think that just a splash screen would work (the Ironsnout figure could be the animated, "real thing" directly from the engine, rather than the static image showed on my attempt).

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#52: Re: Proof Of Concept

by steve_e on 01/03/2008 04:33, refers to #51

Yours is much more in keeping with the sauer look and feel than mine - I was going for 'fluff':

http://tigerleo.com/igd/cube2/sauer_splash.jpg

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#53: Re: Proof Of Concept

by kldsjf lconordfjdskl on 01/03/2008 05:06, refers to #51

Ironsnout, that is a good idea, he could be looking around.

This might be too much(my k key just fell off)bloat, but maybe everytime you clic on a menu item, he plays the shoot animation. And before you start a game, he does his taunt animation, and when you quit, he plays his death animation :D


/me fixes his k ey :D

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#54: ..

by tentus_ on 01/03/2008 06:24

I'm liking the last few posts, especially the screen by carotennaro. I'd suggest that what we do is have just one more exe or (this might be easier) flash document entitled "newplayer" or something, which would offer a menu and such before you launch Sauer in the same manner it is currently launched by the batch file. That way oldtimers can still start Sauer in the traditional way, while new players have something they will naturally gravitate towards.

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#55: Dynamic Splash

by carotennaro on 01/03/2008 07:16

I think that everything on my splash screen proposal could be created directly through code, without the need of anything external (developers, please correct me if I'm wrong).

For example, after the loading, the background could be the tiled texture that I've placed on the screenshot (which is part of the game) the logo is already on repository, and so with the menu and Ironsnout player model. It would be just a different way to place them, but I think that the same principles working for maps, could work as well for a (dynamic, in this case) splash screen.

Not only this would add a more defined identity to the game, but it would also be obtained on the typical, original way that differentiates Sauerbraten from other FPS.

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#56: ..

by geartrooper2 on 01/03/2008 12:26

I'd beef up the hud. a slick hud would make it feel more like Sauerbraten is its own game. I'd make it unmistakeable amongst other games.

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#57: ..

by rock.n.rol_ on 01/03/2008 13:01

IMO, it would be great if there were some nice announcements, for example for having multiple frags in a row, either by voice- or text- announcements.

Also, having a tutorial for gameplay and the edit mode would be great.

@ carotennaro: That splash screen looks neat already, maybe some minor tweaking, but i like this idea very much ;)

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#58: ..

by rock.n.rol_ on 01/03/2008 13:04

Also, it might be a good idea to have the amount of captured flags shown in the scoreboard (capture), as a reward for teamplay. That way some ppl won't only go for most frags, what do you think ?

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#59: aargh

by rock.n.rol_ on 01/03/2008 13:06

Lol sorry, forgot to mention that the tutorials i was speaking about should be in the menu. ;)

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#60: ..

by Exl on 01/03/2008 13:14

What I think, IMHO, is that Sauer is missing some sort of artistic direction. Though it is an awesome engine with some beautiful maps, it doesn\'t ever feel as a whole to me. A more intuitive menu\'s, standard set of maps, consistent artwork (what\'s an ironsnout model doing in an egyptian map?)... I guess it just needs some serious polishing.

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