The way newcomers join Sauerbraten's gameplay

by suicizer01 on 04/07/2011 23:13, 56 messages, last message: 10/26/2011 07:20, 14588 views, last view: 07/03/2024 07:17

After I played Sauerbraten frequently for a while again, I noticed that most servers (with some people playing on it) are having insta on it, or worse, an extension of it (like instateam, instactf, etc).
I've noticed this is the set up of servers in sauerbraten, today:
- 1 Server wich has no maprotation at all, exept instateam venice.
- 1 Server wich is always set on instactf, but gladly some maprotation in it, even tough the same maps get often played over and over again by voting.
- 1 Server wich contains regen capture and also some maprotation. Because most current beginning players don't know anything about the voting system at all, less maps get reloaded after the last one again.

The rest of the servers are coopedit, duels or just not that important to the subject.

When your a newcomer, you often join the server wich instateam venice first.
Why? Since it's the first one on the list, because contains highest ammount of players.
This is actually a very bad thing, since most of those newcomers aren't used to such fast but simple gameplay. Because of that, they get killed a lot of times, while they barely even had time to move (since they don't know the map either).
This creates a lot of negative toughts to Sauerbraten, while it shouldn't be like that.
This counts for the 2 other modes as well, but way less.

Deathmatch somehow gets your in shape quicker than team-based modes and learns you the game way faster.
Why? Probabaly because you aren't able to "lift" with your teammate, wich could be better than you (especially when your new to sauerbraten).

Of course, when newcomers would join huge insta matches, where it's just all vs all on a nice map, they get killed often. But at least they get a way more better image about sauerbraten, that's it not only a game wich has a flawless, outdated campmap as 1st map on the 1st ranked server.

To all (old) players, I hope you remember the time you started, wich probably was when deathmatch was still ruling sauerbraten and when the frags were really mattering (like 3 years ago or even more).

I would suggest to everyone wich runs a server, do newcomers a favor and don't put instateam venice as default mode and map. They aren't waiting for that...

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#47: Re: ..

by Sub-Zero on 10/20/2011 02:41, refers to #46

*In a sneezing motion and sounds* "Fucktardis!!!" Sorry, I am allergic to fucktards. All that you just now said is not relevant. Venice is a shit map, always has been, always will be. And instead of taking the time out to re-type everything that is wrong with it, I decided to just cut and paste my very first post on this thread so you can learn about this map, and learn about the game.


"Skid, here's a small list of things about it that makes it a big hit:
1. Very tight, less movement, makes people easy to hit.
2. There is a lot of tiny windows that face the spawn places that also hide the shooters, makes for easy spawn killing.
3. Sadistically, the spawns are all in the open areas and all face out somewhere where people can get behind them and shoot them or use the chainsaw."


All in all, this map lacks EVERYTHING to be a map of any worth, i have made some shitty maps in my time, but nothing as awful as this.

What this map lacks:
Flow
Correct spawn locations
Good lighting
Good texturing
Proper use of materials such as water.
And most importantly FLOW!

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#48: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 10/21/2011 17:31, refers to #47

You notified flow twice :P.
But I agree with that. Maybe it should be remade properly, with better tactical areas (like houses which aren't box-like, but with chamfered sides, for a more tactical gameplay. Buildings on several ground-heights, etc).

I maybe one day will do such thing, but have more projects to finish at the moment.

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#49: Re: ..

by Zamwa on 10/21/2011 23:27, refers to #47

It's likely the "rough-flow" aspect that attracts gamers! It's easy to judge Venice in any other mode than insta!
I think the negative aspects that adds to the challenge of gameplay is what lures Me in!

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#50: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 10/23/2011 03:39, refers to #49

Insta is actually a bad way of checking out how the flow is, since it's not showing any pickups at all (which can lead players to certain area, like armour, health, powerups or just ammo). If the player isn't able to move to that specific point easy, the map probably won't have a great flow at all.

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#51: Re: ..

by Sub-Zero on 10/24/2011 20:19, refers to #50

sui, no shit sherlock, its because flow is the one thing it is lacking the most. and you are right insta is bad for testing flow, but if the flow is awful in insta, it can only be worse in any other mode.

zamwa: you are a fucktard, spawn camping, spawn camping, spawn camping. that is all this map is.

if you want to spawn camp, why not make a map based that entirely.

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#52: Re: ..

by AlternateLives on 10/24/2011 21:30, refers to #51

Sub-Zero: it seems you have quite a strong opinion. While I agree the flow and spawn point locations are clearly in error, what (or what else) do you think is specifically the problem with the flow on Venice? Is it with the buildings, the paths, or something else? I ask this because I thought I might give it a shot and try to improve the map.

This question also goes towards everyone in the community as well.

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#53: Re: ..

by Sub-Zero on 10/24/2011 21:40, refers to #52

There is too much to honestly tell you about, it would be easier to build it from the ground up, but a start is:

spawn locations (fix these to stop being shot from behind)

spawn locations 1.1 (fix it so you can't be shot from buildings as much.

add lighting

fix the detailing around the doorways so you don't get stuck on it as much

fix the amount of water used (including under the ground, there really only needs water to be around in the areas that.

clip off certain areas so you can't get stuck in random geometry so that you can't move.

but again, easier to just rebuild it from the ground up. good luck.

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#54: Re: ..

by AlternateLives on 10/25/2011 05:39, refers to #53

well, I did some noclipping on doors, windows, and rails, and moved some spawn points around this evening. Then I played a bot match to see how it worked. The verdict: I think you may be right about building it from the ground up. (nothing is more humiliating than getting spawnkilled by bots. Bots! The nerve!)

On a positive note, even the little noclipping the frames and stuff i did noticeably improved flow.

While venice1.5 (what I named the "fixed" map. The original is still saved under the original filename. Just saying this so I'm not accused of cheating) will remain on my drive, venice2.0 may need to begin construction.

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#55: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 10/25/2011 10:41, refers to #51

They have created already such thing sub-zero, it's called "campo"...

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#56: Re: ..

by Zamwa on 10/26/2011 07:20, refers to #51

Sub a poor sport! :"P

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