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first commercial sauerbraten licensee...

by Aardappel_ on 05/26/2006 20:23, 34 messages, last message: 05/29/2006 19:50, 9075 views, last view: 03/28/2024 21:48

is proper games. Check out their website:

http://www.proper-games.com/technology.html

I was able to see their E3 demo, and it is really cool what they managed to do with the engine.

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#21: ..

by Stakhanov on 05/27/2006 20:01

"In fact, you can look at it as a future opportunity to be paid for the work you do now for free."

Grrr...

Isn't it obvious ? Commercial games do not follow the gamer's interests , the post above highlights that only open source is guaranteed to work on linux and mac. Commercial games are by definition designed to sell , not entertain the player for years... since the owning company usually won't take long to release a new generation of similar games.

Why is it that people consider only commercial games to be serious ? Amateur content has surpassed retail material in every single FPS in existence. If Cube could directly use mods from Half-Life for example , everyone would play it...

As philosophical as it may seem , to me it is a very serious issue : the growth of open source games may have political ramifications. Freedom is worth coding for.

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#22: Re: ..

by eihrul on 05/27/2006 20:05, refers to #21

Umm, you are confusing two ideas as opposites for no actual reason - "commercial" and "open source". One has nothing to do with the other. You can have commercial open-source, and non-commercial closed source.

You're basically coming off as whining that you have to pay for content. Boo-hoo.

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#23: ..

by sinsky on 05/28/2006 00:32

I don't think there are any issues considering licensing that need discussion, not in this case. Moreover, Aard and probably the rest of the Sauer developers have seen a demo and are positive about it. Cube and Sauer influence on the industry - now that's a more philosophical subject, if I can find at least one philosopher, we can give it a go :)

It's interesting to think about how user-friendly world editing could change gaming. Generally, it's all about editing - when you shoot stuff and toggle switches, you kinda edit the level.. Even with adventure games, which are considered the simplest kind of game possible, a gamer needs to change stuff in order to see what happens next. However, trying to make people edit a world more than they want to (which is more fun, no doubt) is not what you could call a winning market strategy. My idea of a regular customer is a guy who comes tired of work (or whatever else you can think of), and plays a PC (or whatever) game to relax and distract. Problems associated with creating new levels, even in the simplest way possible, are the last thing the guy would need.

Still, it's my firm belief powerful editing features should be used in every way possible to impress "regular customers" as well. Who knows, maybe one day we'll get the ideal customer - enters the local store, buys a fresh engine, makes a game (while having lunch), and plays with friends in the evening :)

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#24: ..

by pushplay on 05/28/2006 01:38

> Amateur content has surpassed retail material in every single FPS in existence.

Only the best of it. 95% of amature content undershoots retail quality.

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#25: Re: ..

by Passa on 05/28/2006 01:46, refers to #23

I've had the idea before of an editing mode in Sauerbraten that actually FOCUSES on gameplay. As in, you can edit the level with a decreased level of control, with limited amounts of scrolls whatever which are limited by the amount of 'edit' pickups you get. Imagine editing the map around you to suit your battleplan, or jumping off a ledge accidentaly and quickly building a platform to save you. How awesome would that be :)

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#26: Re: ..

by rancor on 05/28/2006 03:08, refers to #25

That would be sort of cool. You'd have to set it up so that you couldn't just drop a lot of ammo around. Maybe have pickups that gave add/delete so many cubic units.

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#27: Re: ..

by Passa on 05/28/2006 04:41, refers to #26

Yeah, thats what I thought, but feasibly, it is impossible. Imagine what would happen to the lightmaps..

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#28: Re: ..

by rancor on 05/28/2006 05:55, refers to #27

Well, it'd be a performance nightmare, but we do have the patchlight command. I don't know how fast it works in practice, since I haven't done much sauerbraten editing. The other problem that occured to me was that while it's quite difficult to create new geonometry while standing on the ground, allowing people to fly around is potentially quite unbalanced.

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#29: Re: ..

by Passa on 05/28/2006 12:45, refers to #28

No, it would instead be like a lower gravity mode, but still with gravity, so you can't fly.

Lol but its not going to happen, like I said, it is not feasible.

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#30: Re: ..

by sinsky on 05/28/2006 22:08, refers to #25

Once upon a time.. I played Magic Carpet 2, and since then, nothing can surprise me. Sorry if my example is too old, but this game was my first encounter with an engine that allowed changing the world while playing. If you haven't played it - in short, you got spells, and some of them messed with terrain (among other things) - you could build bases, mountains, holes in caves, you could fill the holes.. and all of this happening in true 3D on a 486. Compared to the rest of what I'd seen then (and even now), it was pretty cool :)

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#31: Re: ..

by CC_machine4 on 05/28/2006 22:13, refers to #21

actually, there's one fault with that:

money is the main motivation for commercial games, so if all games went open source, no-one would bother to do anything, since they will gain nothing from it.

open-source free(non-commercial) games are great, but also because you aren't making any money you have to do it in your spare time, you have to pay the bills, so even less work gets done. :'(

sorry, but life always works out so that you have to pay for fun.

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#32: ..

by Stakhanov on 05/28/2006 22:55

Just untrue... I have not bought a single game in about 8 years. The 3 commercial games that ate my time the most were StarCraft , Half-Life and Unreal Tournament. Maps and mods multiplied their life span by 5... the rest of the games were freeware , demos , and some abandonware (the free Tribes II release is a good example)

Anyways , I'm not whining about having to pay (I think everyone knows how to bypass that) , it is a matter of principle - money does not make games any better , it just needs a motivated dev team to prove it wrong.

Some people (like me :p) have so much time on their hands it's not funny , so that mapping and coding can become a full time hobby... investing even a small part of the time spent playing into game development allows to release decent contributions. Mappers and coders are a minority , but already the quantity of free games and mods to play is infinite.

Quantity is by itself a quality
-Lenin :>

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#33: Re: ..

by CC_machine4 on 05/28/2006 23:33, refers to #32

wow, yes, i was wrong...

let me correct my statement:

life always works out so that you have to pay for fun, or someone else has to work for nothing (no profit) to make it possible.

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#34: Re: ..

by sinsky on 05/29/2006 19:50, refers to #32

> quantity is by itself a quality

Dude, this is only true about cash.. Computer games are another category :P

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