Eisenstern : The RPG project

by Aardappel_ on 05/10/2006 01:20, 317 messages, last message: 12/12/2010 14:57, 205235 views, last view: 12/09/2021 06:26, closed on 12/12/2010 15:10

As you all know, we have been silently prototyping the RPG project for a while now, mainly in the form of Levels and design.

Today marks the day of the more official start of the project, with a name, a domain, and something hinting at a game design.

Check out the website: http://eisenstern.com/

Particularly note the design notes linked from that page. If you want to have your say about the direction this RPG is going, or feel that certain features "won't work well", then now is a good time to discuss that, in this thread :)

Just because we have a website doesn't mean that we should start announcing this project everywhere, unlike most people, I don't like advertising thing that I am going to do, I prefer showing what I have done :) But it is good to have a home for the project, because we'll shift a lot of our focus towards it as the FPS is getting more mature.

I will be doing some of the core gamecode for this project soon, so people can start to play around with it.

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#14: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 05/10/2006 20:51, refers to #13

I disagree. Levelling/experience is a huge problem in RPGs - and doesn't really need to be there. Consider the problems it causes - either you level up without the monsters, and you get the whole "ooh, ogres - I can fart and they die!" problem, or you get them levelling up with you (a-la FF8) and then the levels are pointless.

Plus, it makes writing the adventure much harder, as the designer must be careful to ensure that you don't level too slow while progressing through the story (forcing you to go grinding across the countryside) or too fast (making the end boss a joke).

Levelling is a bug, not a feature.

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#15: Re: ..

by eihrul on 05/10/2006 21:00, refers to #13

The omission of those things is on purpose. I had argued with Aard about levels/experience being negatively addicting in the same sense as heroin. They cause one to focus on the game merely for those and detract from experiencing the actual world around them.

I have been running MUDs for years, and I want to move away from senseless treadmilling to focus instead on fun gameplay (in the IMMEDIATE sense) and a sense of accomplishment and belonging within the world that is not predicated on some numbers on a character sheet.

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#16: ..

by makkE on 05/10/2006 21:07

Oh, well you guys have a point. :)
I was just wondering about the reasoning behind it.

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#17: Re: ru deaf(blind) or smt?

by Pxtl on 05/10/2006 21:59, refers to #17

Umm, this is not the thread to discuss that.

And you're a dick.

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#18: ..

by makkE on 05/10/2006 22:08

Kids, look at post #1379
in
http://www.cubeengine.com/forum.php4?action=display_thread&thread_id=286
And then stfu please.

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#19: Re: ru deaf(blind) or smt?

by CC_machine4 on 05/10/2006 23:15, refers to #17

oo, lets not spam... and i replyed in the correct thread, go take a look.

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#20: Re: ru deaf(blind) or smt?

by Passa on 05/10/2006 23:32, refers to #17

OK its been said that sendmap and getmap will be implemented, I think, you don't need to spam every thread.

I'm new to this whole RPG thing, but I am getting that Oblivion Elder Scrolls thing, is it anything like that? Or Deus Ex is another example, as you levelled up there as well. And on Quadropolis I remember trying that Mines of Titan mod. Is it something like that? I read the design docs and it seems like you guys have worked alot out already, but one thing is that the RPG will need much higher specs than the normal Sauerbraten core.

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#21: Re: ru deaf(blind) or smt?

by shadow,516 on 05/11/2006 01:08, refers to #20

mmm... Deus Ex... :drool:

where do we get a storyline that good tho?

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#22: ..

by makkE on 05/11/2006 02:57

The way itīs planned, non linear and such, there wonīt need to be a storyline, more like standalone quests. So the quests could be "those orcs block our way to our spring help us" (kill 3 ugly orcs) to "find the three magical artefacts of the holy hammer to restore the kingīs power, wich has been numbed by the magical influence of the dark demon blah blubb buried deep down in dungeon.. find 5 keys first to unlock the mystic shrines of... (insert epic, 10 hour quest here)"

Itīs gonna be up to the mapper(s) or simply people that offer to make up stuff like that I guess.

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#23: ..

by shadow,516 on 05/11/2006 04:00

"There are no artificial limits to where you can go, you will be limited only by the fact that you are initially not very powerful or don't posses the right items, meaning going into certain areas just gets you killed (npcs will warn you).
As you become more powerful, more areas will therefore naturally open up to you"

If there's no leveling up, how is that going to work?

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#24: Re: ..

by Passa on 05/11/2006 04:07, refers to #23

Maybe a skill system? Not neccesarily levels im guessing, but skill improvements such as a higher skill level with long range weaponry, health capacity, speed etc

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#25: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 05/11/2006 05:43, refers to #22

I think you're all misinterpreting the "no levelling" thing. We will have no levelling, but the way the gameplay with items works it has almost the same effect. i.e. by progressing you'll collect more and more items that when carried, will have an effect on your stats.

So for example for damage, you will start out with weak weapons that do a certain amount of damage, and migrate to be able to find/afford more powerful versions. In addition to this, you will be able to carry special artifacts that enhance you damage. Some these artifacts can be produced from combining things you collect from the monsters you slay, etc.

The net effect will be similar, except that you are now much more flexible, in that instead of gaining levels by repetition, you now can additionally gain them by stealing/buying/selling/combining items, trying to kill specific monsters out of your league etc. Just more variety, more creative solutions to gameplay progression.

We will have a stats window that displays for every attribute (such as damage), what the current items you own add up to. This functions similar as levels.

Passa: we're doing a LOT of things different than any RPG before us. But you could do worse than look at oblivian/morrowind, or gothic I/II. Though our game will not be like these games, they come the closest, and have lots of good ideas.

Storyline will be more organic/atmospheric than just linear storytelling. Think of being in a world where every character has their own weird things going on, and as you progress, this will form more and more into a "story". In games, YOU should MAKE the story, it should not be TOLD to you.

Yes, maps will be bigger and heavier than the FPS, so you need a higher pc spec. But its still minimal compared to Oblivian :)

shadow: as the text says, you are naturally limited to a small part of the world, because you will get you ass kicked if you venture out too far from the initial area. As you gain power, you naturally can go into more areas. The world will be populated with monsters from weak to super strong to give you something to discover as you grow more powerful, and the quests will take this into account.

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#26: Re: ..

by Passa on 05/11/2006 07:41, refers to #25

'you will get you ass kicked if you venture out too far from the initial area.'

Now as the RPG has FPS style gameplay, woulden't that depend on player skill?

Also, will there be cheats/easter eggs? And will edit-mode be useable while playing?

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#27: great

by drian@firm05 on 05/11/2006 11:05

Those design notes sound very interesting, I almost feel the addiction ;)

I miss the section 'art' which contains art guidelines/ideas.

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#28: ..

by makkE on 05/11/2006 12:08

Yes, a general art direction would be nice. More realistic? Stylized? A human player model? I want to give characters a try.

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#29: ..

by Max of S2D [Fr] on 05/11/2006 12:29

Erm... a rpg with not experience points is not a real rpg :/

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#30: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 05/11/2006 17:27, refers to #29

So? An RPG without role-playing isn't a real RPG either, and there's damn little of that in most CRPGs. Nethack with sprites doesn't an RPG make. Neither does endlessly...
clicking...
through...
dialogue...
bubbles...
a la Square make an RPG.

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#31: Re: ..

by CC_machine4 on 05/11/2006 21:35, refers to #29

as YOU play the game, YOU gain experience playing... and as you have full control of the character, your skill will improve as you go on.

just a thought...

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#32: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 05/11/2006 23:20, refers to #31

That means that a hardcore l33t player can rush the Final Citidel and kill Skeletor 5 seconds into the game. "Gameplay-experience" doesn't sounds good until it lets you skip 90% of the game.

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#33: Re: ..

by kurtis84 on 05/12/2006 00:43, refers to #29

"Erm... a rpg with not experience points is not a real rpg :/"

no...thats a more fun rpg. I would rather focus on exploration, and gathering of tools, spells, weapons, etc, than worry about getting a points system to the right count at the right times.

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