are you a cube fan, read this then

by GNU/Jeffz on 03/13/2006 08:37, 29 messages, last message: 04/03/2006 14:08, 5752 views, last view: 05/18/2024 23:17

Hi all

I am (or was) a very committed cube player, I enjoyed playing the game immensly and have not tired of it after three months of playing.

However, since Aardappel does not want to fix the security problems in cube (because it's not supported, sauer is the future), I am nolonger able to enjoy this game. The reason I don't play sauerbraten is that the gameplay is too slow, there is no strafe-forward speed boost, only a jump forward thing which makes me feel like a horse with blinkers on (they stop the horse from looking sideways).

This feels awfully restricted and unpleasant compared to cube where you could jump and spin about while strafing and moving forward, giving the sensation of a fast momentum in game play. I think others would agree this is one of the things that makes cube great.

Aardappel says this is a bug and not a feature at all, which is the reason it does not exist in sauerbraten. I asked if there was a chance that it could be a gameplay mode and he dismissed it entirely as if it were completely ridiculous.

I used to give cube my highest recommendation to anyone who I discussed it with.

I think perhaps I should look to play a different game, if this is the future of sauer I don't think it's worth playing if I am unable to wield such fantastic coordination as cube has.

I'd even go so far as to wish to have cube's coordination physics to be increased in a different game mode where some walls would be scalable to an extent to allow further freedom in deathmatching.


</rant>

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#6: ..

by pushplay on 03/15/2006 02:13

> when was the last time you saw real people bunny hop in a field to avoid being shot?

Realism is the worst reason to include/disclude something from cube.

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#7: ..

by makkE on 03/15/2006 03:01

Mitaman, I know you love unrealistic sp :)
But for online play maybe some more realistic game would be more fun to you?
I´d recommend tc:e (the only "tactical shooter" i ever enjoyed) ;)
It´s fun, but realistic, and noone´s gonna bunnyhop you :)

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#8: Bunny hopping

by Pxtl on 03/15/2006 04:41

I just find bunny hopping random. I mean, if players made a _decision_ to jump, that'd be one thing, but tons of players just bounce around the battlefield just to be hard to hit, which is just annoying. Imho, the best approach to bunnyhopping would to make landing slow you down. A brief brake on landing (proportional to how hard you hit the ground) would make you momentarily vulnerable, but otherwise would make jumping still really useful.

But yes, strafejump, the "forward jump" boost, straferun, etc. just seem like little hacks and bugs that have been mistaken for gameplay. I mean, straferun is fun in Cube, but it just feels a bit silly.

Then again, Quake 3 did away with all those things and came out rather dull, so what do I know?

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#9: Re: Bunny hopping

by pushplay on 03/15/2006 04:56, refers to #8

> players just bounce around the battlefield just to be hard to hit, which is just annoying

So you're annoyed that players are trying to avoid being hit?

> bugs that have been mistaken for gameplay

No, bugs are the difference between the intended gameplay and the actual gameplay. Some of the more interesting concepts came out of this difference.

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#10: Re: ..

by asdff on 03/15/2006 04:56, refers to #6

i totally agree pushplay.

realism != fun,

it in fact USUALLY means its LESS fun.

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#11: Re: ..

by asdff on 03/15/2006 05:03, refers to #10

alot of the "bugs" in quake physics is why alot of people still love quake 2 so much.

there are mods for people to put all those "bugs" to good use to complete obstacle courses.

so many movement tricks in q2 that are called "bugs", but are really "emergent gameplay".

somebody looking at the scene in, i believe GameSpy, recently told me there were more poeple in the q2 rooms than the q3 and q4 rooms.
dunno if that was true, but i bet you anything that when q3 & q4 are 8 years old (as q2 is) that their community will be way smaller and that there will probably be still a diehard q2 fanbase.

dont misconstrue this as an argument to keep the faster strafe+forward speed.

i think that particular bug should have been fixed, and i agree with aard on that particular thing.

perhaps the run speed for every direction should be that fast tho?
i really dont care that much however.
q2 has a relatively low run speed and
its overall my favorite fps game

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#12: Re: ..

by mitaman at dark cave on 03/15/2006 12:56, refers to #6

>Realism is the worst reason to include/disclude something from cube.<

I don't want cube/sauer to be realistic, I just hate the bunny hop thing. I'm more of a "hide and seek" or "hunt down the other guy" type of player.

Flame me all you want, but I don't consider "bunny hopping" a gaming skill, just a cheap trick to keep from getting killed.

I'm mostly a SP fan anyway, so my opinion on the matter does'nt really matter.

MitaMAN

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#13: ..

by CC_machine4 on 03/15/2006 18:00

also in sauerbraten if you bunnyhop you get a speed boost.. :/

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#14: ..

by CC_machine4 on 03/20/2006 23:38

which is annoying as well.. how about having an "energy" bar like in farcry, so when u jump u use up some energy, but your energy replenishes it slower than u use it up by bunnyhopping?

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#15: well

by Aardappel_ on 03/21/2006 02:23

You're all out of luck. I love jumping in FPS games, and I think it is an essential part of the great feel of moving in 3d space. I couldn't care less wether it is realistic or not and I am not going to reduce its use in any way (infact I am promoting it).

cube/sauer are not slow creep around corners games. They are all out bouncing around keep moving at max speed games, by design.

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#16: Re: well

by Passa on 03/21/2006 11:59, refers to #15

yes, making a limit on how much you can jump, run etc would make it boring. a large part of cube/sauerbraten gameplay is evasion, especially in instagib.

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#17: solution= make jumps fun to watch

by tentus_ on 03/22/2006 04:17, refers to #15

Have you ever considered adding ways for us to alternate jumps, such as bouncing off walls? Perhaps if the jumps in sauer reminded players more of the Matrix then they'd be more acceptant of them. I certainly get a kick out of watching the flips and vaults in UT, it makes it fun to watch people jump instead of annoying.

You know, it wouldn't be hard to add twists and rolls to the current monsters. Because we already have a pretty decent crouch position for the orgro, a simple 360 degree vertical turn wouldn't look half bad. All the engine would have to do is enact the animation and rotate when the player is both airborne and moving above X speed. This way jumppads and long falls would, by default, look cooler than bunny hops.

I dunno, I just think some acrobatics would make people less inclined to complain.

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#18: Re: solution= make jumps fun to watch

by Passa on 03/22/2006 05:41, refers to #17

Not a bad idea. Or at least consider putting in wall jumps.. once you master them in UT you are one awesome player.. it would be cool if Sauerbraten had that feature.

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#19: dsa

by djlaskjsda on 03/22/2006 10:45

part of the reason people play videogames is to do things you cant normally do in real life

if you want realism, then get off the computer

personally i dont find players jumping all over the place to be such a problem, just because it looks random doesnt mean it doesnt involve some sort of skill... so basically... get over it =]

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#20: Wall jumps?

by Pxtl on 03/22/2006 14:04

If you want to encourage wall-jumping, just make the map use walls that are at the "too slippery to run up, but still flat enough to jump off of" slope.

Personally, I'd rather have a "ladder surface" - a surface flag to let you run up surfaces that are higher than the normal maximum walking slope. Let the players jump off of those if they like. Graphically, you'd have to make the player model tilt away - something like halfway between the surface normal and vertical. Then you could have a cute hybrid between quake2-style ladders and Matrix-style wallrunning.

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#21: Re: Wall jumps?

by tentus on 03/23/2006 03:55, refers to #20

how many ways is it possible to tag surfaces now, i've lost track... it ends up being the best solution for all kinds of things, but the problem is that I can't keep track of it all. This is probably a subtle hint that is should get my lazy rear back into making maps :P

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#22: Re: Wall jumps?

by CC_machine4 on 03/23/2006 22:11, refers to #20

"too slippery to run up, but still flat enough to jump off of" slope.

sounds like a good idea, but has anyone actually tried it? I just did on a newmap in saier, and the "wall" looked like a steep hill (about 60 degrees). Also, because of sauer's physics, with a slope of this size, you can't bounce off of it, only go upwards and fall back to where u were (u cant influencer your velocity while you are airborne)

if u do this in cube, becuase cube handles slopes as fine stairs you get a wierd effect where u fall down the the last "stair".. looks and feels unprofessional.

I'm agreed on a "jumpbounce" material.

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#23: Re: Wall jumps?

by Aardappel_ on 03/27/2006 05:37, refers to #20

I never found walljumps adding anything much to gameplay.

I agree animations can be improved... its just not easy with the md2 set.

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#24: Re: Wall jumps?

by CC_machine4 on 03/31/2006 19:35, refers to #23

well u could add it anyways as a material and then if ppl want it then they can have it otherwise not

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#25: Re: Wall jumps?

by Passa on 03/31/2006 22:54, refers to #24

nooo... how are players supposed to know where to wall jump?

if it is implemented it would work on all vertical walls, regardless of what the mapper wants. although I have a feeling it is not going to be implemented.

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