sauerbraten goal oriented team player mode

by Aardappel_ on 03/13/2006 07:46, 43 messages, last message: 03/18/2006 14:51, 9091 views, last view: 05/18/2024 23:36

Below is the simple specs for a teamplay mode that eihrul may be adding. He could use a model, btw... makke? tentus?

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potential teamplay mode: similar to "battlefield":

"bases" are placed thruout the map

a base can be in 2 states: captured or neutral. When captured, it is
captured by a certain team. This is shown
by the texture its rendered with (red means enemy captured, blue means
your team, grey means neutral). The model can be a flag, or whatever.

a neutral base can be converted to your team by standing next to
it for N seconds (N = 10 or so) within a certain radius. Multiple players speed up
the process proportionally. The time accumulated to N is counted by the server,
and reset to 0 immediately once all players leave the radius.

a base of the enemy color can be converted to neutral in exactly the same way.
(so often it is a 2 step process to take over a base).

at the spawn of a map, all bases are neutral, and all players spawn at normal player spawns,
and try to capture whatever they can. basis are captured, players will
spawn at whichever of their bases is closest to an enemy base.

if a player dies, they wait M seconds before they can respawn again (M = 20 or so).
if you have no bases left (the enemy has captured yours, or at least made em neutral)
you can't spawn at all and have to wait for remaining players to recapture a base.
if all bases are gone and all players dead, your team loses and the match is over.

Alternatively, if this doesn't happen, at the timelimit the team that wins is the team
that has held the most bases for the most amount of time (1 point per X seconds for every
base in your color).

No points are awarded for kills or self-deaths.

When you spawn, you are given a certain amount of ammo for randomly 2 weapons out of the
5 main ones, + pistol ammo. You will not be able to get more ammo unless it is placed in
the map, or if given to you by another player. Any other player can replenish your ammo
of types of ammo he doesn't have. I.e. if you have RL/MG and he has GL/MG, you can replenish
his GL ammo, and he can give you RL ammo.

A simple HUD shows bases relative to your current position in red or blue (can be a sphere with
arrows pointing outwards for faraway bases).

There may be additional powerups needed, to emulate the functionality of vehicles in BF,
but maybe without its already good enough.

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#1: original

by ben>< on 03/13/2006 08:10

why steal ideas from existing games?

Do you have no creativity?

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#2: Re: original

by Passa on 03/13/2006 08:40, refers to #1

trying to remember interweb lesson #54...

it sounds fun! awesome idea! this will really make sauerbraten much more mature in terms of strategic gameplay.

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#3: spawning "at" bases?

by Sparr on 03/13/2006 09:05

how will the spawning be handled, precisely? will you spawn at the playerstart closest to the base? i think it would be best if the closest N spawns were used randomly, otherwise spawn camping with the rocket launcher would be insane.

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#4: Re: spawning "at" bases?

by Sparr on 03/13/2006 09:12, refers to #3

or, and this just occured to me as i posted, what if you used applied a probability of spawing at each base, based on its distance from an enemy base, then applied the same system to the spawns. the probability would decrease exponentially with larger distances.

so if you have 3 bases, and they are 100 units, 200 units, and 300 units away from the nearest enemy base then theres a (i cant do the math in my head correctly) 67% chance of spawning at the 100-away base, 22% chance for the 200-away, and 11% at the 300-away. then apply the same to the all spawns based on their distance from that base, possibly also weighted against spawning near an enemy base.

this system solves the problem i foresee where the enemy might voluntarily ignore a particular base because it is "close" to the front but hard to attack from, giving them unfettered-by-spawning-players access to more distant areas. without anyone at all spawning in rear areas, enemies would have unopposed access to them, especially in scenarios where the "far" bases might be closes to enemy bases than they are to the friendly spawn that is being used exclusively.

allowing players to select their spawn point is the more classic solution to that problem, but probably outside the scope of what this mode would involve.

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#5: Re: spawning "at" bases?

by Aardappel_ on 03/13/2006 10:14, refers to #4

I see your idea, but I'd rather keep it deterministic. Also some of the specs are exactly for the reason to keep it a LOT simpler than BF, for example the current spawning policy doesn't require a UI, and is faster in play.

You may be right that always spawning at playerstarts as opposed to bases may be a good idea (just select playerstart based on base proximity). It will require quite a lot of playerstarts but it will make the maps better.

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#6: Re: spawning "at" bases?

by Passa on 03/13/2006 10:24, refers to #5

will this fancy gamemode be more laggy than ffa with the same number of players?

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#7: ..

by makkE on 03/13/2006 13:29

Allright, flags on their way to eihrul.
Modified pcube flags.. They´re not really flags but banners, so they should look ok if only stationary.

I have no idea if drian wants to maintain pcube, so these might find a use here.

The gamemode sounds fun !
I like the ammo sharing idea.

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#8: awesome..

by Passa on 03/13/2006 13:34

this gamemode will also bring new oppertunities for map making..

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#9: ..

by zyklo on 03/13/2006 14:16

Hello i'm pretty new in here, but i play a lot of BF2 and played BF42 very excessive too.
There has always been the problem with this gamemode that you can capture the flags in the back of the enmy line very easily because no one of the enemy team wants to _defend_ a flag. When you defend, there are less enemies attacking you so you got less kills. This isnt what most players want.

Now here were a few mods in BF that implemented a mode called "supplylines". This is basically the same as "conquest" (flags, spawning at flags and so on, bf-gameplay) but you must conquer the flags in a predefined order, so if there are flag A,B,C,D every team start at another flag A & D and must proceed to B & C. This places the action at a smaller place and is more fun i think. and this way its easier to determine where a player spawns - just one flag :)

Perhaps its also possible that you have 2 equal flags (my english sucks), example:
A - B - C1/C2 - D - E

So before the team starting at point A can conquer flag D they must conquer both C1 and C2, where these flags are not behind each other, they should be next to each other.

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#10: ..

by makkE on 03/13/2006 14:18

"When you defend, there are less enemies attacking you so you got less kills"

This isn´t a problem in this case, since kills won´t be counted.

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#11: ..

by CC_machine4 on 03/13/2006 16:51

looks great!

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#12: ..

by CC_machine4 on 03/13/2006 18:05

oh and be sure to have still have the frag counter, just dont use it for overall scoring.

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#13: I like it

by Pxtl on 03/13/2006 18:32

A good teamplay system that emulates the sector-oriented Onslaught gametype while preserving the N-team gameplay of Cube/Saur.

I would also suggest associating certain spawn points with flags, so that players will spawn near flags if they own one.

Ultimately, you may want to consider UT2k4's approach:

1) players can use any base they posess to teleport to any other base they posess - this is difficult to implement, because it requires a map GUI to select teleport points.

2) bases that are currently "being converted" by enemy players cannot be telported to/spawned at.

This means that bases under attack do not become spawncamping orgies of violence (both teams fighting over the point must charge from their own positions). It also avoids the frustration that players would not be located at useless (or suicidal positions).

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#14: yeah..

by Aardappel_ on 03/13/2006 20:15

zyklo: I do not intend for this game to have individual scoring AT ALL. Yup you read that right. I want this to be a pure teamplay mode, where you have no incentive to do things that will make you look good but your team lose.

And in every goal oriented teamplay mode, since the early days of CTF, there's always players that don't care for the team and do nothing but run out to the enemy. This can't be fixed. I do want to keep the multiple fronts though, makes it a lot more tactical than just focussing everyone on one base to capture. The spawning nearest the enemy base already promotes this.

pxtl: good idea, I think players should only be spawned near bases that are 100% theirs, unless they only have 1 base in which case it they will still spawn there even if its not at 100%

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#15: Re: yeah..

by Passa on 03/13/2006 20:31, refers to #14

How about a different scoring system? As in, like a different way to get points, for example you get 1 point for assisting in a base capture etc.

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#16: Re: yeah..

by Sparr on 03/13/2006 21:19, refers to #15

which part of 'no individual scoring AT ALL' is hard to grasp? its a radical idea, but I like it. giving points for assisting in base captures will make people more likely to just sit on a base during a capture they arent needed for. This happens in BF2, where you get points for a capture assist. A dozen people run to the very first flag and just SIT THERE for the first 10 seconds of the match, wasting well over a man-minute worth of time when 1 person could have easily captured it before the enemy could even get close.

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#17: Re: yeah..

by Aardappel_ on 03/13/2006 21:58, refers to #16

there's some very interesting articles on what lengths people will go thru in BF2 to score individual points by repeatedly doing some very senseless action.

QW CTF used to have this scoring system, it only ever counted captures for the entire team. So if you win by 7 to 4 captures, the scoreboard will show all you r team with 7 frags, and all enemy with 4 frags. It had the most selfless teamplay I have ever experienced.

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#18: cool...

by metlslime on 03/14/2006 05:17

domination mode was pretty fun back in the UT days.

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#19: just an idea

by stinky taco on 03/14/2006 09:48

For the ut2003 Jungle warfare MOD we where talking about implementing a CTF mode.

I gave this Idea there, but our programmer could not implement it.

have so that the server customizes the flag skins used... well, if you decide to use flags like BF2 :)

Would be great for clan matches :P

Would let Sponcer servers shamlessly advertise too LOL!

Well, thought I would just share that.
might be a fun little gimmic to add :)

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#20: Re: just an idea

by Sparr on 03/14/2006 14:03, refers to #19

that would just be a matter of replacing the flag model, although im of the opinion that custom models are cheating.

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