FUSION

by gnarley on 02/27/2006 07:29, 89 messages, last message: 04/13/2006 20:17, 45740 views, last view: 12/09/2021 06:34

here's a link where you can DL the awesome Fusion Mod.

check it out. it's really well made.

http://www.fileplanet.com/145734/140000/fileinfo/Cube---Fusion-Mod

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#15: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 03/01/2006 03:07, refers to #14

All I ever said is that you need permission from the authors. You have permission to use the source code, and indeed there's quite a bit of free media used in cube. You can use all of this.

But there's also a LOT of cube specific content in the archive, and people are repackaging this without asking. Even worse, it appears to someone who downloads it as if I made it, since they just include my docs, my gamedesign and everything verbatim. docs, hud graphics, hudguns, maps, item/map models, many sounds, quite a lot of textures are either made by me or by friends of mine specifically for cube. You need to ask the authors. And I can already tell you, all the files I made, I am not going to allow you to use them unless its something really special (such as Death Illustrated, or the upcoming Action Cube).

Even for the "free" media, I have often asked people personally. i.e. Sock states that his textures can only really be used for Quake3, and I have asked him personally to be able to use them in Cube. I know the vast majority of media makers personally.

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#16: ..

by makkE on 03/01/2006 03:20

Thatīs what I was trying to say, I should have added : Itīs okay to use socks textures when you asked him of course. : )

And as stated before, this rigid way of seeing it is not against people like you, mitaman or tentus or others that respect copyrights and ask for permissions.
Itīs to stop that people who give a **** on copyrights and docs..

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#17: Re: ..

by spentron on 03/01/2006 14:06, refers to #16

Having to install a mod into the existing install does make it _functionally_ clear it's a mod. However the current structure of the game does functionally encourage doing it the wrong way. NOT a problem but wrong to deny. Expecting someone to get a compiler to work just to change some filenames ... all I can say is I'd choose any other working method, even if kludgy. If the mod is a seperate install using all that disk space, why not just copy the whole existing Cube folder and save on download?

One could perceive that the audience for a mod doesn't necessarily overlap with the audience for the rest of the game, so IF the whole thing could be put into a few megabytes why require regular Cube at all? But it won't work. Once it becomes Cube-sized it does seem like the idea is to claim credit or to discourage awareness of the main game. I've downloaded my share of these huge installs and I'd do it again to see fresh, good new content but I'd still rather not have to do that.

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#18: ..

by sinsky on 03/01/2006 14:38

Well.. perhaps now is not the time to ask, and Orb is a rather insignificant project.. but do you want me to remove your sounds from there? I put them in cause the text file said they're public domain. It's ok if you want them out since I intend to do some work on the sound and try to make music but don't know how long it'll take till the stuff gets released. Orb isn't popular so I doubt it has caused any harm so far.

I also didn't get permission on the Ogro model (used in the Ogro Beach panorama in Bob) because all links and mail adressess in the text file were broken. The copyright/permissions part of the file does not contain anything that suggests either if it is legal or illegal to use the Ogro the way I did. I hope the guys who made it get to see my stuff, but don't know how it can happen.

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#19: Re: ..

by Passa on 03/01/2006 21:00, refers to #18

how about a seperate folder for the mod. inside the mods folder you could put:
a config file for the mod
a 'map' folder
a textures folder
a models folder
etc
then add a command line lancher option to sauerbraten/cube that makes it load the mod by default.

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#20: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 03/01/2006 21:18, refers to #17

spentron: I'm sorry, but this is totally backwards. Just because for these kind of people modding is not easy enough then it is ok to steal other people's work? I never wanted to make an engine that was meant for modding (though I support it within limitations), I wanted to make a game. Just because people can't use C compilers, I am now obliged to make everything moddable for them? I am not obliged to do anything. I am not working for anyone in particular, I am working to create a cool game, for my own satisfaction.

The problem comes from people thinking open source == I can do whatever the hell I like to it, and assuming that the same license of the code also holds for all media.

sinsky, I am fine with Orb using some of my media, as it is a very different project. Thanks for asking.

Passa, this is already the case. That is what folders inside "packages" can be used for. Read the docs.

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#21: ..

by tentus on 03/01/2006 22:00

it's funny... a lot of the content with restrictions is no longer possible to get permission to. Try emailing most of the playermodel authors on polycount... 9 out of 10 times the quake authors have moved on and there's no longer any way to track them down. In CL i'm using several playermodels only on the "the readme was generously termed" basis, because I can't seem to track down authors for the vast majority of the playermodels.

The solution, for me, is to try and make as much of my own content as possible. I'm still not up to making a fully animated playermodel (i just don't have that kind of time), but I've been slowly but steadily replacing textures. And all my maps are original or obtained from permission from Nashaii or enigma.

The next step for me will be asking fanatic if I can use his "Fall of a King" soundtrack, which is something I've been putting off because it adds a whole 15 megs to the download =P. Maybe I can get permission to exclude some songs...

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#22: ..

by absinth on 03/02/2006 00:27

>...not easy enough then it is ok to steal other people's work?


copyright-infringement != theft

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#23: Re: ..

by Passa on 03/02/2006 06:20, refers to #20

aard you say this everytime, but the packages folder is no solution. what if the modder wants to change the player model for a mod? or a weapon model?

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#24: ..

by makkE on 03/02/2006 12:30

Then he can simply change the source, to point to the new media in his package, and compile new bins for that.

I am no coder, but if I had to, this would probably not be very hard, and maybe a good way to get in touch with it.
Sure it would take some time and effort, and probably some thought, but all in modding takes that.

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#25: Re: ..

by spentron on 03/02/2006 12:40, refers to #20

Aard: after reading your reply I actually had to go back and read what I wrote. I didn't say it was OK to steal or do anything not allowed, or that you had to do anything. Mostly I'm thankful the game is easy to do look-and-feel mods in the first place.

Looking at the original Fusion posts and the Fileplanet page, impp_d did bow to peer pressure about the .exe as the later DL is a .zip, so he also probably would avoided redistributing files if he had been shouted down at the time, maybe with pointing out more than 1 way to avoid it. At 43 MB, it has to be at least half new files though ;-0

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#26: Re: ..

by Passa on 03/02/2006 12:51, refers to #24

there are people who know nothing about coding who just download cube, change one or two things and then repackage it as their game. you should be trying to make it easier for them to mod. to recompile the source code means that they will have to find a good compiler etc and it makes it hard for these people. i am not suggesting there should be more of these mods, im just saying that a system where you dont need to modify source to add new player models etc will reduce this illegal use of cube's media files.

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#27: Re: ..

by tentus on 03/03/2006 05:08, refers to #24

changing where the main files are located/named is very very easy, even for someone like me (not a coder). I decided to make CL a standalone for two very simple reasons

1) easier for me to develop for (due to the way i go about updating stuff)
2) in the end all the files in CL should be either my work or something unique from cube. obviously, this is not yet the case, but it's being worked on.

John and I should get some time this weekend to work together in person. Whether or not we actually get anything done is a different matter (as most of you can guess, CL is at a dead standstill right now... I'm drained of motivation).

I dunno, I just feel like the CL project wasn't making any headway whatsoever, and so my energy for the project dwindled. If you don't feel like people don't so much as notice your project, you tend to stop wanting to spend your limited free time on it. That's whats happened to me- as I lost the battle to keep people interested in CL, I lost the impetus to keep working. Just not much point anymore.

Good lord, I should like some emo kid on LiveJournal. Bleh.

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#28: Re: ..

by tentus on 03/03/2006 05:09, refers to #27

I can't type to save my life tonight. Sorry if that post doesn't make much sense.

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#29: use UNIX or DOS to mod!

by stinky taco on 03/03/2006 06:18

Hi all,

in windows we have batch files,
in linux we have scripts...

both can move entire directorys........just by renaming them.


Just have it temporarly rename the packages folder to packages_temp , rename your mod folder to the package folder.... and after the program terminates, it does the switch back again.....


it seems very simple to me, this way you wont have to distribute sauerbraten with your mod...

would look something like this in MS-DOS:

rename package package_temp
rename mod_folder package
sauerbraten.bat
Echo press any key to switch folders back
pause
rename package mod_folder
rename package_temp package

after the sauerbraten.bat terminates press any key to switch the folders back....

If I am not mistaken there is a onterminate command in DOS too that might be more helpful...
Linux script would look very close...


well, anyways, this way you wont have to break any copyright laws to make your mod work....
seems like an easy workaround to me... your download size would be lots smaller too..

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#30: bad idea

by stinky taco on 03/03/2006 07:12

perhaps this is a bad idea...

if your mod crashes, or the user dosent let the batch file complete its job, the folders would remain switched....

then the end user would try to play sauerbraten and it would be your mod insted :/

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#31: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 03/03/2006 08:47, refers to #26

argh

THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH.

those people you refer to, that just download cube, replace one or two files, and offer it for download as their own game CAN'T MAKE GAMES, and there is no point for me to make things easier for them. Making games involves skill and hard work, and I don't see why I should put in special work to allow people that desire to make games BUT DON'T WANT TO PUT IN ANY EFFORT to make them.

This whole attitude of "I want stuff but I don't want to put in effort" really makes me puke. It seems to be the central theme of the internet. If you want to be proud of yourself, work for it, don't take others stuff and pretend its yours. Otherwise, please go back to sit on the couch with the 99% of people that never achieve anything.

I should talk with Eihrul and Gilt if they want to make sauerbraten a closed source freeware project. The openness of the source gives us more bad than good.

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#32: Re: ..

by Passa on 03/03/2006 09:22, refers to #31

I didnt say to encourage them to do this. I said that you should prevent this by making a mod folder. So instead you will have 100 2mb mods that do nothing except change a few textures rather than 100 30mb mods that are exactly the same as Cube or Sauerbraten.

How will making it closed source freeware help? People don't modify source, they make a map and say 'ooh look i made a game' and repackage it into a 30mb thingo. Thats the problem.

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#33: Re: bad idea

by spentron on 03/03/2006 12:56, refers to #30

Taco: The batch file should start with trying to rename temp to main. Normally there is no temp and that line will do nothing, but it prevents messing up if things are still switched. Probably some other issue ...

Aard: One thing about "games" is the definition. Many mods are as much a new "game" as Ms. Pac-Man is different than Pac-Man. With the advent of Quake and modifyable games, suddenly "game" became anything that runs under that game, because when you're talking about how great Quake is it's partially because it's modifyable. On the other hand that de-emphasizes how different some mods are (e.g. DMSP).

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#34: Re: bad idea

by spentron on 03/03/2006 13:16, refers to #33

continued ... so some people might call their mod a "game" to dishonestly claim ability, but it could also be an honest claim of seperate appeal and flavor. I prefer to think of some of my *maps* as new games, even though I don't see any need to package them as a standalone. The only reason I'd consider that is if I didn't need most of the regular files, which so far is never the case (I checked a few years ago).

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