FUSION

by gnarley on 02/27/2006 07:29, 89 messages, last message: 04/13/2006 20:17, 56417 views, last view: 05/18/2024 21:20

here's a link where you can DL the awesome Fusion Mod.

check it out. it's really well made.

http://www.fileplanet.com/145734/140000/fileinfo/Cube---Fusion-Mod

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#1: ok...

by Aardappel_ on 02/27/2006 10:39

Not to be a party pooper, but I am going to have to start cracking down on this. A mod release like this is ILLEGAL. You can't repackage the entirety of cube or sauer and call it your game, much like you can't repackage the whole of Quake with a mod and call it your own game.

If you want to make a mod, make an archive that contains ONLY your new files, with instructions on how to add it to an existing cube install to play. That's how mods in other games work too.

If you want to make your OWN GAME as oppposed to a mod, the only thing you can use is the source code.

Please remove this mod from fileplanet and anywhere else you have uploaded it, don't make me do it. Thanks.

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#2: Re: ok...

by Passa on 02/27/2006 11:36, refers to #1

this is bad. maybe you should make a mod folder so that it is abit more obvious. like implement a mod selection feature, because this is rudiculous.

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#3: Re: ok...

by Aardappel_ on 02/27/2006 21:24, refers to #2

it doesn't matter what I do, because people that make mods like this have not even ever read the docs.

A mod folder? what do you think "packages" was meant for? I made the dir structure with mods in mind from the start, so each dir under packages can have his own cfg with mod specific textures, scripts, sounds etc.

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#4: Re: ok...

by Passa on 02/27/2006 22:11, refers to #3

how can you load a ogz or cgz if it is not in the base folder?

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#5: Re: ok...

by Aardappel_ on 02/27/2006 22:47, refers to #4

its in the docs...

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#6: Can you call this a mod?

by spentron on 02/27/2006 22:50

Unless I'm missing something, to change monster models in the unmodified engine requires replacing the existing models with other ones exactly where the game expects them to be. Therefore you can't just stick it in on top of the regular Cube install and then switch back by deleting the mod. Replacement menus are a similar item here.

The most elegant install method would be to use a batch or executable file, including uninstall, if you're windows only which this is. Another method is copy the regular install, install mod over it, delete when done. If the filesize is not greatly increased, it is simpler to include the needed regular Cube files.

Even standalone, a mod is not a game by normal definitions, but there are practical issues that may favor standalone packaging. I recall Fusion is a large file, but one of the earlier mods was only about 6 MB which actually made sense to be standalone.
So

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#7: Re: Can you call this a mod?

by CC_machine4 on 02/27/2006 23:43, refers to #6

1)what he's saying is that you need to make your mod(s) so that you extract thhem to the cube folder and overwrite things, rather than making a new game which u extract and then run on its own that contains content from the original cube like textures, models etc. An installer would classify as the former, unless it's programmed to install it to your cube directory.

2)noooooooooooo!!! impp_d made a great mod, and i really dont wanna see it lost forever!! isnt his email in the forum database somewhere?


---------------------------------------
model: aries 5563N (go 2 savastore.com)
CPU: AMD sempron 3400@2.0 ghz (i hate intel's)
GPU: 256mb nvidia 6600 (PCI-x)
RAM: 1gb DDR1 PC3200
HDD: some 200gb ATA drive
3dmark:
'05: 2106
'06: 1004
a good PC, cost me £650

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#8: Re: Can you call this a mod?

by SilentFox2000 on 02/27/2006 23:44, refers to #7

He released it the wrong way. Your supposed to put down certain information in a doc. file. and make sure the author is ok with it.

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#9: uhhh

by Aardappel_ on 02/28/2006 01:48

spentron/cc: you shouldn't need to "overwrite" existing files. You can do pretty much anything in parallel. If you must change fundamental things, you can provide an additional exe (with yourmodname.exe) that refers to the new locations of your new media. The whole point is that you have no rights to redistribute cube media, so you make an addon to the game.

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#10: ..

by SilentFox2000 on 02/28/2006 02:31

Adding to the game is more then enough imo. I still say he should've gotten the ok first before making a complete mod.

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#11: Re: uhhh

by pushplay on 03/01/2006 00:53, refers to #9

You might have the right to redistribute some of the media. That has to be determined on a per package/author basis.

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#12: Re: uhhh

by MitaMAN in the cave on 03/01/2006 01:24, refers to #11

almost all of the media in cube is freely available for download.

all monsters are found at "polycount".
many sounds are found at "awesound".
most textures are found at "wadfather".

as long as the original creator of that media gives permission to use his/her stuff (permission granted on their website or contacted by email) what is the big deal?

as far as i can tell from reading the various readmes in cube, most of cube's media was not created exclusive for cube.

i can understand that "exclusive media" such as Aard's monster sounds, the original cube weapons, and fanatics sound tracks should not be re-distributed because those items were created exclusive for cube.

as far as the other stuff is concerned, i don't understand the problem.

i am a firm believer in ALWAYS giving credit for media made by others. it's the right thing to do.

not long ago i did a "face-lift" for the Retribution Engine. i used all new textures, sounds, and models (none of it made by me, but much was modified to work in that engine). every author i contacted (most got back to me) were thrilled that their media was being put to good use. it was like "free advertising" for them.

everything i used was documented, the source was provided, how i modified it, and of course GAVE FULL CREDIT.

Aard, i'm sorry, but i really don't understand what the problem is. if media that was not exclusivally made for cube has permission obtained from the author, i don't think you have the right to tell anyone they can't use it in their own project.

MitaMAN

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#13: ..

by makkE on 03/01/2006 02:07

Mitaman, let me try to explain.
I didn´t really understand it at first too.

I believe it must be understood more generally.
See, many people seem to think "cube/sauer is free, so I can do what I want with it."
They plan to make "games" that mainly consist of cube content.

Now the problem is, that you can´t generally assume that if something is distributed to you for free, you´d be free to redistribute it, since the authors might have given their permissions to Aardapple to do this within cube/sauer, but not to anyone else.

I think the reasoning is to draw a clear line between a content-pack or mod and a "game". Cube´s and Sauer´s source codes allow you to do anything you want with it, and base any new game or application on it.
It´s just not the same with content.

So to make things clear, a mod/content pack would only contain the changed/added files and preferably a seperated .exe file, so it can be extracted into cube and co-exsist as an extension.

This ridgid way of seeing it is the easiest way to make sure that copyrights and authorship are being respected.

And I hope it puts those off that just randomly collect and add/replace some media, slap it all together and redistribute it as a standalone product, pretending it was all theirs kind of.

It´s true that much of the content is freely available and usable for anything, but that doesn´t hold true for everything you find in the /packages folder.

Free stuff is great of course, but people should be aware that there´s also authors that wouldn´t like to see their hard work being messed with in some poor quality "games"
.
And someone not able to package his content correctly and provide a seperate .exe file, thus just zipping up his modified cube folder shouldn´t have a chance saying "look I mde this überroxor1337 game, d00d !1!!1!"

Hope I am right on this all :) Correct me if I´m wrong.

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#14: Re: ..

by MitaMAN in the cave on 03/01/2006 02:41, refers to #13

ok, so let me give an example using the fine textures from "sock" used so often in cube (the egyptian textures that are part of the cube release). sock allows the use of his textures for non-commercial use as long as he is credited. those textures can be downloaded from his website (and wadfather also, i believe). i have never read anywhere on his site, or in any cube readme that those textures are "exclusive" to cube

are you trying to say i cannot use those textures in a game i make based on cubes source code just because those textures are part of the original cube release? if that is what you are saying i think you are wrong.

to avoid confusion, i believe that all the "exclusive media created for cube" should be clearly listed as such. those items Aard has all the right in the world to control and i agree.

other media (such as socks egyptian textures for example), Aard has no right or control over them just because they are part of the cube (and sauer) release.

i think the biggest problem is most people that "create their own game/mod" do not give proper credit or seek out the authors permission. a person cannot just swap out a few textures/models and call it "their own game".

MitaMAN

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#15: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 03/01/2006 03:07, refers to #14

All I ever said is that you need permission from the authors. You have permission to use the source code, and indeed there's quite a bit of free media used in cube. You can use all of this.

But there's also a LOT of cube specific content in the archive, and people are repackaging this without asking. Even worse, it appears to someone who downloads it as if I made it, since they just include my docs, my gamedesign and everything verbatim. docs, hud graphics, hudguns, maps, item/map models, many sounds, quite a lot of textures are either made by me or by friends of mine specifically for cube. You need to ask the authors. And I can already tell you, all the files I made, I am not going to allow you to use them unless its something really special (such as Death Illustrated, or the upcoming Action Cube).

Even for the "free" media, I have often asked people personally. i.e. Sock states that his textures can only really be used for Quake3, and I have asked him personally to be able to use them in Cube. I know the vast majority of media makers personally.

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#16: ..

by makkE on 03/01/2006 03:20

That´s what I was trying to say, I should have added : It´s okay to use socks textures when you asked him of course. : )

And as stated before, this rigid way of seeing it is not against people like you, mitaman or tentus or others that respect copyrights and ask for permissions.
It´s to stop that people who give a **** on copyrights and docs..

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#17: Re: ..

by spentron on 03/01/2006 14:06, refers to #16

Having to install a mod into the existing install does make it _functionally_ clear it's a mod. However the current structure of the game does functionally encourage doing it the wrong way. NOT a problem but wrong to deny. Expecting someone to get a compiler to work just to change some filenames ... all I can say is I'd choose any other working method, even if kludgy. If the mod is a seperate install using all that disk space, why not just copy the whole existing Cube folder and save on download?

One could perceive that the audience for a mod doesn't necessarily overlap with the audience for the rest of the game, so IF the whole thing could be put into a few megabytes why require regular Cube at all? But it won't work. Once it becomes Cube-sized it does seem like the idea is to claim credit or to discourage awareness of the main game. I've downloaded my share of these huge installs and I'd do it again to see fresh, good new content but I'd still rather not have to do that.

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#18: ..

by sinsky on 03/01/2006 14:38

Well.. perhaps now is not the time to ask, and Orb is a rather insignificant project.. but do you want me to remove your sounds from there? I put them in cause the text file said they're public domain. It's ok if you want them out since I intend to do some work on the sound and try to make music but don't know how long it'll take till the stuff gets released. Orb isn't popular so I doubt it has caused any harm so far.

I also didn't get permission on the Ogro model (used in the Ogro Beach panorama in Bob) because all links and mail adressess in the text file were broken. The copyright/permissions part of the file does not contain anything that suggests either if it is legal or illegal to use the Ogro the way I did. I hope the guys who made it get to see my stuff, but don't know how it can happen.

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#19: Re: ..

by Passa on 03/01/2006 21:00, refers to #18

how about a seperate folder for the mod. inside the mods folder you could put:
a config file for the mod
a 'map' folder
a textures folder
a models folder
etc
then add a command line lancher option to sauerbraten/cube that makes it load the mod by default.

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#20: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 03/01/2006 21:18, refers to #17

spentron: I'm sorry, but this is totally backwards. Just because for these kind of people modding is not easy enough then it is ok to steal other people's work? I never wanted to make an engine that was meant for modding (though I support it within limitations), I wanted to make a game. Just because people can't use C compilers, I am now obliged to make everything moddable for them? I am not obliged to do anything. I am not working for anyone in particular, I am working to create a cool game, for my own satisfaction.

The problem comes from people thinking open source == I can do whatever the hell I like to it, and assuming that the same license of the code also holds for all media.

sinsky, I am fine with Orb using some of my media, as it is a very different project. Thanks for asking.

Passa, this is already the case. That is what folders inside "packages" can be used for. Read the docs.

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