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Sauerbaten multiplayer gameplay

by Aardappel_ on 01/31/2006 00:28, 117 messages, last message: 03/02/2006 15:01, 83920 views, last view: 05/18/2024 22:39

This thread is meant for discussion of recent sauerbaten multiplayer gameplay enhancements.. there will be a new release today, and should be suitable for extensive multiplayer testing.

Some of the highlights sofar (read history.html for details):

- sauer masterserver
- "mastermode" cheat prevention / server privacy
- gameplay balance and feedback changes (additional graphics)

After testing, please comment on the multiplayer experience on this thread. Also, suggestions for further improvements are welcome, though I'd prefer to hear about improvement to existing features, or how we can improve the feedback/feel, as opposed to the usual "I want weapon X and game mode Y from game Z"

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#1: Persistent Powerups

by Aardappel_ on 01/31/2006 00:44

Also... I have a crazy gameplay idea that I could use feedback on.

Basically, one thing that is always kinda repetitive about DM gameplay is that after getting killed you completely start from scratch again in terms of weapons/armour etc, which makes it there is nothing to really work for rather than just kills and items.

I think something that could spice up DM play is persistent powerups. These are items much like quad, but once picked up they are valid till the end of the game, as opposed to time limited or until you die. The powerups would give small gains (such as +10 or +20 max health) which are almost insignificant, but given that a number of them spawn during a game, collecting significantly more of them than your opponent could make you a lot stronger towards the end of the game.

So it provides a focal point, as collecting these powerups becomes important to your chances later in the game. Also, it provides for different flavours of gameplay, as players are more powerful towards the end of the game, meaning they can't be killed as easily, meaning strategies and battles change, giving more variety to the otherwise "the same every spawn" gameplay of DM.

There are dangers in balance, of course. The items should be powerful enough that people want to go for them, but not so powerful that having one or two of them already makes you significantly stronger. It is fine that if one player collects all and the other none, that towards the end you have to put in a lot of effort to get a kill, this is part of the game. And with games lasting only 10 minutes or so, this is fine.

If needed, there can be caps set on the number of powerups carried at once (powerups collected when the cap is reached replace earlier powerups).

Icons above a players head could indicate what powerups the player currently possesses.

Also, to help the casual gamer, and the fact that with a large variety of powerups it would become rather random knowing when which one spawns, I would suggest adding a sound/voice 5 second before spawn that announces its arrival. Rather than being random, this focusses the battle of all players on the powerup area, which has proven to be interesting tactically in other games. Pro players use timers to know these things, but I don't feel our community is at the level where that kind of level of play is common.

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#2: well ...

by TheFrank__i on 01/31/2006 01:05

i fine that your idea is veary original, but not so good of an idea for deathmatch. But what it would be good for , is team death match. Ive been playing with cube since the begenin and i have to say , the only thing that people played was deathmatch ( wich kicked a**). But when CTF came out , it was so much cooler cause of how fast the action was. All im saying is that sauerbaten should be a little more about team gametypes cause i fine it to be more original and a little more challenging since shooting isnt the only thing you have to do.

Anyways, your idea would be cool for team deathmatch, but each team would have there base to gane these power ups , they have to go in the ennemy's base. like that you always have to attack, theres no defending like in ctf ( well , there is a little defending if you dont want the ennemy to gain these power ups ) yourgoal isnt only who as the most kills, but as your playing you have to concentrate on getting all thses power ups to be the strongest. Another advantage , is that the battles wouldnt always be at the same plays cause you have to go pretty much everywhere in the ennemies base to find these power ups so that would be another thing that would be fun , cause sometimes i hate it when the action is always at the same place. Look at Counter Strike for an example : at every round , theres atleast one guy that takes each path. Even do my idea is different, it still sets a good example for what im trying to say.

im not so good an english so if theres somthing you dont understand in there just ask me, but this is my opinion on how i would do it ...

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#3: Re: well ...

by Aardappel_ on 01/31/2006 02:23, refers to #2

I love teamplay, my favourite mode of online play of all time is quakeworld 4v4 team dm. But these modes tend to be the most fun if you have 2 organized clans fighting eachother, and it doesn't seem like we have an active enough community to sustain that.

I could make a mode where new players automatically get put on teams like some other games, but that reduces a large part of the fun.

I want to add elements that add the most to the modes that most likely get played, which are FFA and 1v1 (and maybe the occasional 2v2).

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#4: Re: Persistent Powerups

by pushplay on 01/31/2006 02:26, refers to #1

The idea reminds me of Crimsonland. That was a good game with a clever balance of powerups.

I like the idea, I think it's a clever twist if implemented correctly. Two things would improve this I think:
One would be an indicator as to where the powerup is going to spawn. Like a small arrow on the edge of the screen pointing to the spawnpoint. With the countdown it'll ensure that powerups become a focus for conflict and not just a random spawn that whomever happened to be closest to gets.
Second would be an indicator for what powerups each player has. This can be as simple as a series of bars over a player's head corresponding to the powerups they collected (red for health, green for armor, blue for speed, etc).

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#5: Re: Persistent Powerups

by Aardappel_ on 01/31/2006 02:45, refers to #4

these persistent powerups would spawn in the same spot everytime, much like the quad, currently. Do you still think that requires an indicator?

And yes, the indicator for what powerups a player has would be part of it.

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#6: ..

by TheFrank__i on 01/31/2006 03:24

well i just want to say that it will be unfair for the one who joins the server half way threw since he will have to catch up to the rest ... thats something to think about ...

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#7: it is out!

by Aardappel_ on 01/31/2006 07:58

new sauerbraten release: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=102911

read history.html for new features to look out for. Come to #sauebraten to test multiplayer together... report here.

Have fun!

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#8: any change to the physics?

by Passa on 01/31/2006 08:08

are the physics still the same??

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#9: Re: any change to the physics?

by Aardappel_ on 01/31/2006 08:47, refers to #8

go pester Eihrul to fix it... really all we need is more people to bug him.

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#10: its a bit better

by Passa on 01/31/2006 09:11

the download is done after quite a while (why isnt it on the optus.net server?) anyway, the physics are still the same :( and the shotgun is limited to 30 shots! i like the new graphics when you shoot though and it is good that the minigun is now no longer accurate and that it has a 60 ammo limit, but it is very buggy and i got stuck in walls alot and had to jump to get out of them. also, the little bits of writing that fly up when you pick up something are not needed. overall it is an improvement over the old version but more buggy. i still like the independence version the best as it is not buggy, the multiplayer is ok, the physics are the same as cube and it still has the 'glass' material from the newer versions.

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#11: linux version

by rancor on 01/31/2006 11:08

The linux_client binary crashes immediately on startup, before any libraries are even loaded. However, I compiled the source, and am quite impressed, particularly with the performance improvements.

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#12: a few comments

by CC_machine4 on 01/31/2006 11:17

i can't get the masterserver to work in sauerbraten or cube, someone fix it,(it gives me a list with no server names) if i start a server it says "your server was not registered because it didn't respond to ping"

also, i don't like those light beams that you see when you shoot.. they give away you're position if you're sniping someone

i do like the text that coms up when things respawn/lose health though :-)

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#13: Re: a few comments

by Passa on 01/31/2006 11:56, refers to #12

the sniper rifle has always had a trail of light, and now that the chaingun is inaccurate you cant snipe with that either

also, it looks weird on my 6600GT card with any drivers above 77.72. anyone else having the same problems? all the textures stretch and go funny.

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#14: add me

by da55id on 01/31/2006 13:50

well add me to the list of people who cant
host a game. my port forwarding is of the range 28765 to 28766. but i get the same error as cc_machine4. \\\\\\\"didnt respond to ping\\\\\\\" its not a firewall issue.

i didnt think i was retarded but im sure theres someone on this board who can tell me differently and set me straight

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#15: ..

by makkE on 01/31/2006 14:30

I love the bullet trails, very nice.
Spread on the machinegun is great, should help the balance a lot, and bring the rifle back into play :)

The gamemode idea sounds fun, given that everone´s got a fair chance on getting a powerup once in a while.
Say you got 3 of them and they´d spawn at the same time in 3 locations would mean noone could be esily dominating by pattern running.

I offer making the models, and icons if needed.

Aard said: "I could make a mode where new players automatically get put on teams like some other games, but that reduces a large part of the fun."

I think you know my opinion on this:
Put them in 2 teams. Add a variable:
/freeteams 0/1
and make 0 default.

This way teamplay will happen on the pubs, but if 6 friends meet on their own server, or people on the pubs agree, they can vote /freeteams 1 and play 2vs2vs2 or whatever, and enjoy that possibility.
Atm on pubs, teamplay is just another way of extending the timelimit to 15.




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#16: ..

by makkE on 01/31/2006 19:04

I´m seeing a performance increase in this version, though it seems the fps counter isn´t exact. 30 frames run smoother than they used to, feel more like 60-80 :)

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#17: ..

by quirk on 01/31/2006 21:48

I also found the linux_client segfaults immediately. When compiling from source I found that the enet configure script is still in msdos format (has a ^M at the end of each line) and won't run until you run dos2unix over it.

I couldn't find any servers but maybe there aren't any?

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#18: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 01/31/2006 22:28, refers to #17

well, it seems the different linux distros are so incompatible that making binaries may not make sense anymore... maybe we'll go with source only from now on? Or is there any linux expert that knows what is causing these incompatabilities?

I have never touched the configure script... no idea why its dos.

Servers... someone will have to run a permanent server?

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#19: Re: ..

by rancor on 02/01/2006 01:14, refers to #18

I don't believe that is the problem here, it looks to me like the binary was somehow corrupted. In paricular, note the following:
$ ldd linux_client
ldd: /lib/ld-linux.so.2 exited with unknown exit code (139)

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#20: Re: ..

by rancor on 02/01/2006 01:17, refers to #19

Ignore my last post, it appears that linux_client was built with gcc 4, which is not backcompatible with the 3.3 series that most distros ship with.

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