ATTENTION ALL!FIRST SAUER MOD HERE!

by keeen on 09/20/2005 20:10, 18 messages, last message: 09/23/2005 03:16, 2277 views, last view: 05/01/2024 13:11

Yo,my name is Keeen and i would like to say that i am planing to make a Sauerbraten mod with its own models,maps and storyline(cutscenes too).All i need is a very experienced mapper(with Sauer of course)

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#1: the rabid viper victims page

by >driAn<. on 09/20/2005 21:04

Yo, my name is driAn and I would like to say that I need to get my "failed cube mods" page to work again.

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#2: haha

by krachoz on 09/20/2005 21:57

ok

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#3: ..

by makkE on 09/21/2005 00:37

Wasda, there´s a story behind the sarcasm displayed here.. this board has seen ca 30 posts like this that never got anywhere, exept a lot of discussion that soon turned into flaming.

Actually lots of ppl in the community are doing lots of stuff, you just don´t see much of it (until it´s done ;), many of the busy ppl have stopped posting here much also, because this board has been becoming a bit of a headache over the time..

Keen, if you really want to get ppl intrested in your ideas, you should come up with a little more that "I wanna make a mod" ..
You´ll need to get ppl excited about your idea, means you should present a clear vision about what your mod is planned to be, plus more importantly you´ll need to show us that you´re worth leading the mod.. meaning, it would be better to come up with a start (cool stuff you did) before asking for help at such an early state..
Many ppl here are already involved in some projects, so you might even think about just joining one.. since you said you only need a mapper, I guess you can code, model, and render cutscenes all yourself?

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#4: When Making A Mod

by pushplay on 09/21/2005 01:57

Nothing gets people excited more than a proof of concept. It gives people an idea of what you're working towards, shows that you're serious and that you bring more to the table than a 5 sentence design doc.

So my recommendation is that you work on a 1 level demo and then show that to drum up interest.

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#5: ..

by tentus on 09/21/2005 07:26

Ja, as makkE and pushplay said, you really need a demo available before you announce a Mod. It's not like i came out and said "hey let's make a zelda mod!", but rather, i made about five little stages, gathered some models, songs, and textures around me along with some expirience and a webhost, and then made a thread gere which started on a quiet, nonspecific bit of text that isn't distracting/irritating like ALL BLOODY CAPS TITLES!!! By having a nonspecific thread starter you then keep from confusing later readers of this thread, who will still think you need a mapper even if you've got ten.

your starter doesn't even explain what the point of the mod is. is it just a resource mod, replacing graphics and adding a sub-story?

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#6: Re: ..

by >driAn<. on 09/21/2005 18:09, refers to #6

> Man, at least he's *planning*

I would be more polite if there is "a plan". But all the information about the project we get is

1. its a sauer mod with own models,maps,storyline
2. needs a very experienced mapper

You can't expect serious comments to that.

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#7: Re: ..

by dcp on 09/21/2005 18:35, refers to #6

do you have a serious problem with 'reading'? no one here wrote anything like 'you suck' as you said.

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#8: ..

by keeen on 09/21/2005 19:03

Ok,i will release a tech demo,showing sample of those cutscenes,some new features and a intro movie,showing story of the game.And Makke and Pushplay,your levels are cool.And btw i started converting old Doom maps into Cube format.Just finished level 30 and level 1.

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#9: Re: ..

by >driAn<. on 09/21/2005 19:14, refers to #8

Sounds a lot better now ;)

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#10: ..

by keeen on 09/21/2005 19:51

No,it wasn't me,i don't have Commander Keen model,i got Quake 2 models :)

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#11: Re: ..

by pushplay on 09/22/2005 01:35, refers to #8

Those are good maps, but take a hint from Aard and make -ish maps instead. Like do something that will remind people of doom e1m1 but do something original to it and make it your own.

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#12: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 09/22/2005 02:49, refers to #11

Stop playing only Doom and Quake. I've been playing some non-Id shoot-em-ups and there is a lot to learn. Serious Sam should be required playing for budding mappers - the game has it's own flaws (really, really flat) but it introduces a _lot_ of mapping concepts that could be applied to Cube mapping.

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#13: Re: ..

by pushplay on 09/22/2005 04:59, refers to #12

I don't know if SS is a good example of mapping as much as it is a good example of game design. If you want to look for good map design I would look at Heretic and Goldeneye. And maybe Halo for counter-examples.

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#14: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 09/22/2005 16:42, refers to #13

Personally, I find that the mapping in Heretic and Goldeneye is just as dull as Quake's mapping - lots of baddies in small rooms and long hallways. Monst monsters just shoot at you.

Sam really opens up the combat. The monsters are just as simple and stupid as Cube's (although there's more variety in the monsters - Cube needs more hand-to-hand beasties).

Most maps for Cube that I've seen seem to follow the "walk down hallway, find 3 monsters and kill them, go to next room, etc". Searching room-by-room till you get the switch, then backtracking to where the door opened (and some monsters were exposed). Lots of tedious ammo rationing, lots of room-by-room stalking.

Sam does the opposite - dead simple, linear maps with wide open arenas that let the player fight the way that they want to. Ammo is plentiful, again letting the player be free to play the way they like.

aside: ppl keep saying the weapons needed by cube - Cube needs a chainsaw/flamethrower/some sort of rapid-fire high-power point-blank weapon. Then I could cleave my way through hordes of monsters the way I remember doing in Sam and Abuse.

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#15: Re: ..

by Gilt on 09/22/2005 22:27, refers to #14

heh, you missed the gist of pushplay's comment. saying SS had good maps is like saying smash TV had good maps, or that dodonpachi and esp.ra.de had good maps, or that chaplin's movies had great dialogue. certainly, it may not be wrong to say that all of those things are good, but it's important to note why they are good.

they are good not because they are inherently good and noteworthy. rather they are good in how they get out of the way and don't mess things up. they are good in how they let other things take the spot light and how they hide themselves. while I definitely think that there is a good lesson here to mappers not to be megalomaniacs or control freaks, I'm not sure that it's a very attractive idea from a mapper's point of view.

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#16: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 09/22/2005 22:38, refers to #15

Fair enough. I don't know much about art, but I know what I like. Just remember to step aside from guiding the player around and occaisionally just let them cut loose. And never, ever let them get lost.

Personally, my fave map for Doom was a single-map wad file called "Fortress.Wad" - it was a simple castle in the middle of a courtyard surrounded by 4 walls, each wall meeting in a tower. You started outside of the walls on an open field. With monsters inside the couryard, outside the castle, standing on the walls, and inside the towers, it was pretty violent. 3 of the 4 spires had keys in them. To get into the spires, you had to get to the wall, take an elevator up it, and fight along the top of the wall into the spires. Once you had the 3 keys, you could get into the castle proper, which was in the center of the courtyard.

Very simple, tons of freedom for the player, and horribly violent. A good mix of all the monsters, there was even a spider mastermind inside the courtyard. It was pretty obvious how to play it, and never dull. I played it over and over again at each difficulty, with teams, etc.

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#17: Re: ..

by tentus on 09/23/2005 02:25, refers to #16

i tried to accomplish that in my Valley map (CL only), but it kind of gave out on me. it's much, much harder to make an open map without ruining everything and tripping over yourself. besides it takes longer and more space, so non-commercial mappers have limited motivation to do it.

btw, has anyone figured out the secret in valley yet? (it's related to the castle layout...)

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#18: ..

by sinsky on 09/23/2005 03:16

A real good map should have both open and closed areas to gain fans from both sides :) But how to do it right.. don't ask me.

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