Who can host servers?

by mukkan on 08/22/2005 00:14, 26 messages, last message: 08/25/2005 14:21, 5590 views, last view: 05/03/2024 02:28

I am making a Mod for Cube called sopos which contains a lot of hot female chicks in it.

Many things have been improved and/pr changed such as the weapon system, player etc.

When I release this I was wondering how many people could run the server 24/7 for me?

Thanks,
Mukkan

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#7: b

by aa on 08/22/2005 21:45

well back on topic:

yes i could run a 24/7 server but the mod has to be worth it, and since the likelyhood of people playing this mod even if it is good would still be very small, id really have to be impressed by it

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#8: ..

by makkE on 08/22/2005 22:27

I´d offer my help, but I am quite busy at the moment. I have another project going,
plus I am helping out nieb and kurt with skins for their rpg stuff models/maps..
Means my to do list is pretty long already...

What I can offer is unwrapping a model once a while, if you´re intrested. I am quite fast at that by now and it´s even become fun to me. (I like that puzzling somehow).Feel free to send something to me by email.. (if it´s not 20 models at once :) in a non-destructive format means: not md2...

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#9: well...

by Aardappel_ on 08/22/2005 23:11

the problem is damn simple:

in the 5 or so years of cube's existence, NOT ONE ARTIST has stepped up to the plate to make better models.

The current models represent some of the better ones from polycount.

If someone want to do an entire set of new monsters, GREAT. Want to make em high poly? if you can work in 3ds max, I simply add my very high performance skeletal character animation code (works with a max exporter). md2 doesn't scale that well. You want to do it extremely high poly and know how generate bump/spec maps? Even better, I'll add support for rendering those too.

Alternatively I can add an md3 loader. But the characters available there aren't that much better than the md2s.

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#10: Re: well...

by Pxtl on 08/22/2005 23:57, refers to #9

I don't know, I've seen some very nice md3s over on PolyCount. At least enough to populate a roster similar to Cube's.

The problem is that the more modern a platform you use, the smaller the roster of free, OSS content, editors, exporters, etc. md2 has a plethora of stuff. Q3 and Half-Life have a little less. Newer modeling formats (eg. UT2k4) would be damn hard to be compatible with because of the lack of rendering libraries. There are no open model platforms with a ton of free content except for the oldies.

Without artists, a platform doesn't take off.

Personally, my approach would be a barbaric one - start with Half-Life models (just because they're the most primitive and prevalent skeletal models I know of) and start adding extensions for nifty features (better texturing, etc.).

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#11: ..

by makkE on 08/23/2005 01:37

Wasda, yes my email is valid, drop me a line if you like.
Look at the sauer quakecon edition, there´s the first few maps (wip) in rpg style, I am skinning some of the mapmodels by nieb for it..

Oh I wish you could make a ms3d exporter for your format, Aard.. a lot of people can´t just afford 3dsmax..or a blender script maybe?

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#12: Re: well...

by tentus on 08/23/2005 03:20, refers to #9

i started to once, before realizing how much work making a player model is. Seriously, making a player model in md2 is a wide open field, you have flexiblity and control out the roof, but it's extremely time consuming.

Personally, as a modeller, i believe that every poly counts and that the best way to make a modern looking model is to spend a long time looking for ways of optimizing and the spend even longer getting the skin perfect (the ogro is a prime example of needing extra skin time). Unfortunately, i haven't had that kind of time on my hands in over a year. A new format would help some people, but i'd probably end up returning to MD2 just because i'm so expirienced with Q2Modeller, and love being able to control each and every vertex.

As an interim fix for playermodel complaints, i'll try to rework the ogro skin so it's a bit prettier. Maybe it'll be good enough to include in Sauer (particulary if i can get the spine crease fixed).

Ultimately, a hand artist needs to sketch out a new player design, with general plans for the animations, and then turn that over to a modeller. Once the modeller is done with it, it needs to be turned over to a really talented skinner. A three person team is more likely to stay motivately thru the whole thing than just one person, and the combination of talents could produce better results in the end than just one person. This system has produced the best models on polycount, with exceptions of course, and i think we should try it here in Cube/Sauer.

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#13: ..

by makkE on 08/23/2005 03:33

I agree with you 100% on your last paragraph.. it would also assure them fit together better, If there was a general concept by a "real" artist behind it.

Furthermore I believe with the RPG project that will be even more neccesairy, at least when it comes to characters. Not to mention storyline and backround..

Well, if there´d be a blender script, I´d be willing to learn it.. no doubt. Anyone around that would try to make a script for the new format? (in case it´s possible)

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#14: Re: well...

by Aardappel_ on 08/23/2005 09:26, refers to #14

the numbers that are so "hardwired" are used by 99%+ of all hundreds of md2 character models out there. Even better, you can save a lot of time by importing the bones of an existing models for your animations when creating a new character model, which again uses those same numbers. It clearly restricts the artist, eh?

I don't like that section of code either, but has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of original models. I could make it configurable in an instant if some artist wanted to make a completely different set of frames, but it just not an issue.

Contributed regularly? what planet are you from? Do you have any idea what effort it is to create 8 (or more) high quality animated models?

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#15: Re: well...

by Aardappel_ on 08/23/2005 11:56, refers to #15

"noob quality coding"... oh wow, I have really brought you to your wits end, eh morgaine?

So why does such a smarty pants like you spend such an incredible amount of time on the forum of a project consisting of 90% noob code and/or noob design, and will do so for ever (yes I am the dictator, and noone can stop me, haha!). I know a lot of other noobs that would love your attention, if you have so much time!

And as such a staunch supporter of open source, I bet you have a lot of code out there. Can we see some of it? Noobs need to laugh^H^H^H^H^H learn too!

And of course you can do what you did last time I asked you these questions: pretend you never saw them, and go troll in another thread. But as a keen noob, I am dying to know! And I have the feeling I am not alone!

Morgaine, enlighten us!

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#16: ..

by mukkan on 08/23/2005 15:37

Morgaine2 I actually found the code quite pleasent to read, I am not a C++ newbie, but I am new to the Cube Engine.

Aardappel_ has done quite a nice job, and you can use any of the slots without troubble (other than the one the baaul uses, that little red thing).

But that can easily be fixed. I actually kept the Baaul in my mod but modded the skin because I couldent get any extra models. I struggled enough as it is to fill the others.

There is a big lack in the will for people to make mods, cube has been out a LONG time as I can see and I don't see much activity as far as modding is concerned. This isnt just in the Cube community either.

One of the biggest gaming communitys (Counter Strike) also has the same problem, there are a few mods but considering the ammount of people that play counter strike and the length of time counter strike has been avalible there are not really that many mods.

I would much prefer to make a mod for Cube then Counter Strike or any ither commercial game because Cube is simple and great to learn from.

I have hit a few baffeling problems with the Cube Engine but I will resolve these, some how.

Aardappel_ do you know where I can get good MD2 weapon models?

The thing that Cube has been a BIG success in is map modding, it is so easy and so much fun to make your own map. I believe that there have been more coutom maps made for cube than any other game simpilly because it is so very easy. Takes time, but in general it's not hard. It's not like you have to fight with the zoom and yaw etc.

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#17: ..

by NightWind (a.k.a. mistermath) on 08/23/2005 19:21

mukkan: I'm not Aard, but I'd try
http://planetquake.com/polycount/
They seem to have models for *EVERYTHING.*

And yes, the thing that makes Cube and Sauer so brilliantly successful is the ease of creating maps. You can go without new monsters for a time, but without new maps, gameplay gets stale FAST - for anything.

However, Cube and Sauer (mostly Sauer) could easily overtake most other engines if it was easier to add other elements as well, including (as everyone has said) player models.

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#18: ..

by makkE on 08/23/2005 19:28

"I have no intention of falling for your attempts at changing the subject."

Morgaine, come on, you started it, ffs!!. That´s just flaming on the lowest level, calling anyone´s code "noob-code". It´s neither constructive, nor has it got anything to do with your all so often praised "professionalism".

So if I get this right: You got all rights to fire flames at everyone, but as soon someone replies, you put it off ? How self centered and ignorant is that?

You have done NOTHING for cube or sauer since you been around here, yet you think you have all divine rights to critizise all the damn work people have ever put into this, just because your whole idea about it is diffrent?

Social incompetence at it´s best if you ask me. No wonder you got nothing to show to prove you expertism, lol.

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#19: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 08/23/2005 20:07, refers to #16

there are not a lot of ready to go md2 weapon models around, but some of the polycount models have their own weapons if you look.. I think the "slith" is an example. These are 3rd person, not 1st person though.

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#20: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 08/23/2005 20:10, refers to #17

I'll implement custom frame cfgs as soon as someone is around that can contribute media to sauer that makes that worth it. I have not seen a single model from you yet.

And yes I will reply your emails. You're not the only one affected by my enormous backlog... I do get a fair few emails, you know.

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#21: ..

by makkE on 08/23/2005 21:22

he was replyig to mukkan

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#22: Re: ..

by tentus on 08/24/2005 04:43, refers to #17

actually, i'm a modeller. i can skin well enough, but i'm of the opinion that makkE can do double the quality i can. it's actually one of the things that i had to learn when i got into making the CL mod- i'd make models but my skins were so low quality the effect was lost. now i try to do both well enough.


you know, while we're on the subject of configurable models- i'd like to see a bit of work done on making the *next gen* player model actually interact with the default weapons in 3rd person. This'd give other modellers a place to start from and a few things to focus on, which sometimes (frequently really) gives birth to ingenious design. the trick would be allowing enough configuation not to get caught in the Vwep trap, where there's a huge amount of wasted space and effort for each model.

My solution: make it so the *next gen* playermodel has multiple parts that fit together, so that a modeller can make intermediate changes to the player, without reinventing the wheel. the most prominent example of this is how Q2 modellers had to make an extra pair of armns for each vwep- that's ridiculous. i suggest we make it so you can cfg a pair of arms to each weapon, so that only 2 or 3 sets of arms are need for most of the weapons (this is including weapons that might get modded in). Two additional benefits of this would be that the head could be easily seperated from the body (headshots anyone?) and any bounding box bugs would be seriously trimmed down. It'd also make it easier to add custom skins or heads. the list goes on and on and on.

tonight i'll take a good look at the ogro and start taking it apart so i can look into these ideas. i'll get a result soon as i can, maybe three days from now. this will include my reskining effort.

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#23: ..

by makkE on 08/24/2005 05:16

Thanks, tentus. :)

What you are suggesting there is called md3, I think.
And still knowing next to nothing about modelling, I guess a skeleton based format will be even better for those purposes ?

The only thing that stands in the way for me is 3dsmax really, concerning aard´s format. I´d be willing to learn blender(or any other free or low cost application), and get into all the spec/bump/normalmap etc stuff aswell..

btw tentus, check out these:

http://www.poopinmymouth.com/index.htm

(especially intresting stuff about light and texture theory)

http://st.burst.cc/tutorials.htm

(how to do wood/metal by hand)

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#24: Re: ..

by tentus on 08/25/2005 02:46, refers to #22

i've started breaking it down. so far i've got the head and torso/legs more or less how i want them. i'm still working on getting the skins updated- i've got them roughly how i want them, everything's aligned, but i want to get some good retexturing in there. The skin of the ogro has got plenty of room for improvement.

This leads me to wonder what my reasonable limits are though. Ultimately, i think that a superior composite skin will be maybe twice the size of the original 256x256 skin (so think of it as a 256x512 skin all told) which may be more performance loss than Aard wants. There won't be much added polies (yet), so it'll probably all be changes in the skin.

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#25: ..

by makkE on 08/25/2005 03:24

I´d say you can well go with 512x512.

Using 256x512 is nonsense anyways I heard, because the gfx card will still use that as an 512x512, eg cards always use square stuff internally anyways.
I don´t think it would be too heavy on performance.

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#26: Re: ..

by tentus on 08/25/2005 14:21, refers to #25

what's happening is i've got a 256x256 skin and hopefully two 128x128 skins. that's looking like it's less likely to happen.

The arms have been done and everything still meshes as a mapmodel. Because the ogro was designed in peices to begin with, the only faces i had to add were three triangles where i chopped off the head. however, the skin size is pushing more towards 3x the original, with less improvement that i had hoped. there's simply a whole lot to be skinned on the ogro. the skins are currently 256x192 (torso), 128x128 (head), and 128x256 (arms). If what makkE says is true (and now that i think about it, i think i've heard that too), then i'll try and rework the arms and torso skins to be more square.

As good news, because all the parts have the same origin, they should be very easy to align ingame- 0 0 0. I haven't been able to check against MD2 loss, because we don't have moving mapmodels, but to the best of my knowledge all the faces are still going to come together. I've been doing my best to do all the model editting in one go, to prevent loss.

I expect to have something semi-publishable this afternoon. If someone could write a hack for me to test this stuff one that'd be great.

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