Teamplay

by Wolf on 06/26/2005 02:49, 18 messages, last message: 07/04/2005 05:29, 1456 views, last view: 05/05/2024 13:54

Alright. I started this off by suggesting team spawn points in the most wanted features thread and it quickly spun off into an almost two page long discussion. So im taking all the ideas from there into here to continue the discussion.

So far:
1. A way to describe the maximum number of teams allowed in map. (so the game/engine/plugin/whatever can warn players about this limit and, maybe, force players to join to some team)

2. Start points (spawn points) with a property to describe the team number. (I think this is very easy to implement)

3. A way that engine/game/plugin/whatever can associate team names to team numbers.

4. (one of most important) Change the skins of player models according to team!!!!

5. Way to describe team limits to engine.

6. Tons more but i got tired of pasting lol.

I dont think we need more ideas on how to play with teams. I think we need to decide how to actually handle this. I personally would like to see this for cube since people can actually play cube online fairly easily right now and after its done it wont be two hard to move it over to sauer unless aard decides we need to do it in a different way. I know that everybody wants to keep the engine small and gameplay seperate but cube is pretty much done isnt it? I think we should just hardcode it in and if aard lets us we can make a new release out of it, if not we have our own teamplay cube mod.
How we apply this to sauer will more than likely be different. We may just have to wait until scripting is added in order to keep the engine and gameplay serperate and to stay out of the way of future development. Any ideas and/or volunteers on implementing it?

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#1: cube vs sauer

by Wolf on 06/26/2005 05:52

i still think it would be good to do this on cube first. it wont take much effort to begin with. plus we will prolly be able to use most of what we do for cube in sauer aswell. and we will be able to play it right away because cube is already being widely used in multiplayer. we wont be diluting that much because im not asking aard or any of the other main developers to help. im starting to think that the best way to handle this may just be an independent mod focused on adding gameplay and slightly better graphics.

sum 'insipiration' lol
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/HIethan592/cube/flag.jpg

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#2: Re: cube vs sauer

by tentus on 06/27/2005 17:09, refers to #1

i'm with Morgaine on this, focus this on Sauer first, and probably not on Cube at all. Besides, we already have had some MODs in those directions, notably Quad and Thalion's CTF Mod. Most of the stuff on your list is either already done or very easy to do.

BTW, we already have two sets of flag models, both sets havin red and blue skins. Also, a lot of developing sauer maps are symetrical enough to be easily converted into CTF. So we're kinda just waiting for someone *hint hint* to actually put it in there for us. I'd be willing to make a ball of some sort if you wanted to imitate UT's Bombing run, once i've finished my turret for Sauer (i'm getting there, i'll be done soon).

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#3: sauer

by Wolf on 06/27/2005 22:22

sauer would prolly be a better choice. but is it ready for this stuff already. I will start looking thru the source and figuring things out... I dont need any models lol, i have plenty

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#4: random...

by Wolf on 06/27/2005 23:14

this is off topic but does anybody else think the player needs to be taller?

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#5: multiplayer

by Wolf on 06/28/2005 03:10

As far as i can tell, multiplayer is enabled but there is no masterserver. You can directly connect to a server and play i believe.

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#6: Re: cube vs sauer

by CrazyTB on 06/28/2005 06:24, refers to #2

Hey, we don't need different models for different colors. We just need different skins. Idea:

skin.jpg -> Default skin file.
skin1.jpg -> Skin for Team 1
skin2.jpg -> Skin for Team 2
skin3.jpg -> Skin for Team 3
...

This could be available in players/monsters models, as well as flag models.

I was thinking... Should all entities have a "team number" property, to identify to which team it belongs? For some entities, this could be unused. For others, this would change the skin used and, maybe, will restrict the entity to work only with that team (maybe teleporters and items?)

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#7: Re: multiplayer

by CrazyTB on 06/28/2005 06:25, refers to #5

Yes, the multiplayer works (I think). You just need to find a server by yourself.

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#8: Re: random...

by spentron on 06/28/2005 07:13, refers to #4

"anybody else think the player needs to be taller?"

I long ago discussed how the scale of the textures is huge compared to the player. The default bricks look like standard house bricks, but are actually about 5 times larger. Scaling them down results in destruction of resolution. Most other textures are arbitrary scale however.

A larger player would also be comparable to reducing gridsize. Of course it would be terrible for most existing maps. FPS is weird about size, scale height feels too tall, and a monster that looks about your size at a distance towers over you close up.

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#9: skins and player

by Wolf on 06/28/2005 20:12

i know we dont need different models, but we do need different skins. That was my plan all along. Apparently there is sum difference in teamplay. Your teammates have a slight blue tint. Im thinking that this is in the code tho cause i cant find an image like that.

and about the player...
the texture thing is wierd yes. i dont think it would destroy most maps. i just cant stand having to make my windows start at like 3 of the tiny cubes from the floor and then having it like 12 more to the ceiling. looks very wierd... and you cant see over 4 steps?

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#10: ..

by ejqwkj on 06/29/2005 01:14

why not just make it like the quad models, the ones that actually look human, those were good actually, its better than that ogre

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#11: ..

by Wolf on 06/29/2005 05:06

quad models? i have my models replaced with a human model. but i cant change anything cause then it would be fully different than sauer. im thinking about redoing alot tho... offering the teamplay enabled version and my mod version. maybe. still figuring out how much work it is.

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#12: Simpler approach.

by Pxtl on 06/30/2005 03:10

Rather than numbering the spawn points, you could just name them. As in, in a classic CTF game, you could designate half the spawn points as "red", half as "blue" and if a player attempts to join with a different team name they just spawn in as an observer. That could work too.

Or, could do a plan C - games generally fit into 3 categories - free for all, N team, or 2 team. If we could sacrifice the CTF4 games and other games that are designed for a specific number of teams (other than 2) then you could simply have a 3rd attribute for "side".

So a player picks a team (like normal in Cube) and a Side (red or blue, 1 or 2, whatever). Your Side is used in 2-team games, and your Team is used in N-team games. Or we could call it "clan" and "team", where "clan" is the 4 team name. After all, the "clan" mode of gameplay makes more sense for Team-DM, Domination, etc.

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#13: Re: Simpler approach.

by Pxtl on 06/30/2005 03:11, refers to #12

Bah, made that more confusing then necessary. I meant "team" is the traditional "red or blue" concept, and "clan" is the current Cube system.

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#14: Re: ..

by 87 on 06/30/2005 03:36, refers to #11

he means VECTOR models

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#15: Re: Simpler approach.

by CrazyTB on 07/01/2005 04:17, refers to #12

> Rather than numbering the spawn points, you could just name them.

Good idea, but I feel that numbers (integers) are easier to implement. I may be wrong, of course. :)

About clans and teams, I don't like this idea. I prefer to have two types of game modes: no-teams and N-teams. For 2-team games, it will just happen that N is two. I think it will be easier (since they will be only two opposing types of game modes).

Ideas for assigning teams to the map:

1. Some "pre-game" screen where each player chooses to which team will join (something like RTS games and also how Counter Strike works).
2. The map will have a list of available team names, so the player must change the team name to match one of the maps' team names.

In fact, these two ideas can be joined. The map must have a list of team names, and, when joining to game, the player must choose to which team he/she want to join (like in Counter Strike).

Notice: the "/team" command must be changed. If someone changes the team in-game, he must die before respawning to the new team, as well as resetting his score. If we don't do that, cheating in team games will be easier. We will need, then, the "/chooseteam" or "/teamselect" command, to open the team-list dialog.

(another unrelated idea) Maybe we could have three game types: no-teams, "fixed N"-teams, "any N"-teams. So, we could have no teams, N teams (where N is a pre-determined positive integer) or any number of teams (like it is in cube now).

Maybe the idea in the last paragraph would bloat the code too much, and would add more confusion than anything.

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#16: Re: Simpler approach.

by CrazyTB on 07/01/2005 04:19, refers to #15

One more thing: the list of team names can be easily added to the "mapname.cfg" file. Of course, cube/sauerbraten MUST be updated to download this file as well as "mapname.cgz", when getmapping.

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#17: how to do it...

by Wolf on 07/01/2005 04:49

im away all weekend at a family reunion so i cant compile anything (not like i have been able to yet lol) but i printed off most of the code so i can read thru figure things out and plan changes. im prolly going to do this for sauer even tho it will mean alot of updates. Sumbody should make a team oriented map and email me it along with a description of how it should be played and i will try to code what we need to make it work. (hiethan592@msn.com) ttyl

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#18: YES

by Wolf on 07/04/2005 05:29

ok, i got sauer to compile. Just wondering if anybody wants to offer their 2 cents on how i should start before i do. Suggestions on how to handle spawns and other general stuff and how to actually implement it (ie. you have looked at and understand the code) are welcome.

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