Support for 3D formats other than MD2

by CrazyTB on 06/13/2005 20:33, 16 messages, last message: 06/17/2005 11:47, 2366 views, last view: 05/05/2024 19:45

Currently, Cube (and Sauerbraten) supports only MD2 format. There is the idea to support MD3 format too. The only problem I see with those formats is the lack of free tools to create/edit (at least on Linux).

Blender does have an externel export script to export to MD2 (and also MD3, I think), but the script is incomplete, and does not create the "GL_commands" section of MD2 file.

AFAIK, the MD3 exporting doesn't work yet.

I suggest using of format AC3D. I know nothing about this format, but people in http://www.happypenguin.org like it, and it must be a good one. (or at least a simple one). Blender can export to that format easily.

Or someone could fix the blender MD2 export script. :)

http://bane.servebeer.com/programming/blender/index.html

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#1: ..

by makkE on 06/13/2005 22:04

There´s a lot more modeling apps for linux that support md2/md3, like mm3d for example.

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#2: ..

by sinsky on 06/14/2005 16:20

I doubt the md2 script could work any better :) Of course I'm wrong as usual. But, to the point - what you probably need to do is open the exported file with Quake 2 modeller, work on it a little till it's properly placed and sized and save it again. But before you do that, make sure the mesh is triangulated in Blender. And there may be other things I'm missing. *sigh*

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#3: ..

by makkE on 06/14/2005 17:44

This is a promising linux app in developement:

http://www.misfitcode.com/misfitmodel3d/

Might not be too useful atm, because still laking import of the important formats, but this one does export md2 without the stupid vertex compression ;)

Maybe it´s me being stupid though, what does "triangulate model" do ? Maybe is also fixes issues about that? Does q2modeller work on the md2"grid" already?

Well you linux modellers might try it out, maybe it´s a good tool for md2 stuff.. (md3 planned aswell)

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#4: .mesh

by guest4372 on 06/14/2005 19:32

Another option would be to use the format of an opensource rendering engine (such as http://www.ogre3d.org/) that already has exporters for all major modeling programs and substantial community support.

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#5: Re: .mesh

by jean pierre on 06/14/2005 19:49, refers to #4

Yeah thats a good program ogre3D.

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#6: Re: ..

by sinsky on 06/14/2005 22:00, refers to #3

My mistake it's called "triangulate" in Wings 3D. In Blender the option is "convert quads to triangles" and it's available in edit mode in the mesh\faces menu. For example if you make a cube in Blender and export it to a .md2 the Quake 2 modeller will not load it properly. So you triangulate it first. Don't know why there is such limitation, probably an old opengl or quake engine-specific thing that has influenced the format as well. New formats shouldn't have it.

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#7: formats..

by Aardappel_ on 06/15/2005 01:18

I am not for supporting the format of some random linux modelling program. MD3 is a good choice because its very simple and has wide availability of models. If we want something more complicated for doing more advanced stuff with sauerbraten, its hard to do this universally, and we'd have to standardize on something like 3ds max

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#8: ..

by CrazyTB on 06/15/2005 01:43

I was talking about "AC3D" format, and not about AC3D editor. Maybe you could ask in http://www.happypenguin.org/ , since they have a good experience with games and may have some good ideas.

Blender can export to AC3D and many other formats. Blender is available for Linux, Windows, PowerPC, Mac... Blender is free.

MD2 exporter for blender was created by someone else, and isn't complete. The exporter lacks an important thing called "GL_Commands". Search how MD2 format works and you will understand what is this.

AFAIK, the MD2 format has the limitation of only supporting triangles.

I tried to compile "Misfit Model 3D", but it needs a newer QT than mine. I won't update my QT only for that program.

Currently, I model in Blender, I make the UV-Map in Blender, I use the exporter to MD2, then I open the exported (and incomplete) file in "Quake 2 Modeller 0.91b" (q2mdl911.zip) under Wine just to export it again to MD2.

I don't know how MD3 format works, and I don't know many free exporters exist. Unfortunately, I don't think there are many.

I won't mind about MD3 support, as long as we keep MD2 format. In addition, I would "love" MD3 format, if we have a good exporter for it (specially if the exporter is free).

Again, I have no idea about how AC3D format works, but, AFAIK, it is a very simple format (IOW, easy to implement) and easily exportable.

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#9: MD2 triangle-only "limitation"...

by HopFrog on 06/15/2005 14:23

I'd just like to point out that MOST game model formats accept only triangles, and it's a feature more than it is a setback. Most game engines only process triangles for their surfaces, because it results in higher performance and ease of development due to:

-Triangles fit nicely into designated triangle arrays.
-Less exceptions in OpenGL.

If I were you guys, I'd simply learn to deal with the triangles, because in the end it helps more than it hurts.

MD3 is a good format, probably the best if we're looking for a solid, widely available format with lots of models made for it.

I still like Cal3D's trifecta of formats, but MD3 is a good middle-ground.

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#10: Re: MD2 triangle-only "limitation"...

by Pxtl on 06/16/2005 02:25, refers to #9

The problem with MD3 is that it is not skeletal. While vertex-animated models allow modellers more creativity, they also create problems. First off, skeletal models are smaller, which allows for more compact mods. Second, they're more versatitle, as mods can add new animations to the skeletal models - for example, let's say you need a "sitting/driving" poisition, or a "riding a pogo-stick" animation. You can't add that to your MD3s. Using a common format with a skeletal base would be better - ie. Half-Life models.

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#11: Re: MD2 triangle-only "limitation"...

by quirk on 06/17/2005 01:10, refers to #10

While I agree that skeletal models do allow a much greater range of animations and poses to be produced, wouldn't they take much longer to process?

With MD2 you just load the current frame and the next frame, interpolate, draw.

With a skeletal format you would have to do some matrix math for each bone which would be more complicated again for weighted vertexes.

I'm not sure how much more difficult to implement or processor intensive a skeletal format would be as I havn't written a program using one but I think it should be taken into consideration.

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#12: ..

by makkE on 06/17/2005 01:17

Well aardappel had mentioned his own skeletal format he has written recently, the only downside of it was that it currently only imports/exports in max3d :(
Would be great to have a ms3d and a blender import/export script for that.

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#13: ..

by makkE on 06/17/2005 01:19

But since that would probably take too much time (and currently lacks someone to do it) md3 would be the most reasonable choice I think.

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#14: How about both?

by HopFrog on 06/17/2005 01:32

What if we used a.) MD3 and b.) Aard's Skeletal Format?

Would supporting both be *that* dreadful?

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#15: Re: How about both?

by Aardappel_ on 06/17/2005 04:54, refers to #14

that would actually work... cater both for existing models and new ones. But frankly I'll add it as soon as there's a need for it, I haven't see anyone offering too make a high quality set of original character models yet.

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#16: Re: How about both?

by drian@firm05 on 06/17/2005 11:47, refers to #15

I got the md3 code partially done. Atm it can load models and link them together with tags (tag_head,tag_torso,etc).
The use of hashtables in the md2 rendering code is imho crap, for md3 I\'ll find a faster way for model access & rendering. And yes, the code fits the \'philosophy of simplicity\'.

Don\'t be in such a hurry, md3 is really not that important at the moment =)

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