Linux users excluded from tricking-fun?

by makkE on 05/07/2005 14:40, 50 messages, last message: 06/06/2005 01:04, 4720 views, last view: 05/18/2024 17:41

I have made a trickjump map for cube, including strafe and riflejumping (using the kickback to jump higher).

While having it tested by several people, we have noticed, that linux users have a far harder time in trickjumping than windows users.

In linux it was reported that riflejumping will only really work with 300+ frames, while on windows every jump is possible at way lower fps.

I have recorded two demos to demonstrate this. This jump on aard3 is the easiest riflejump you can do. While the windows demo was recorded at 60fps (vsynced @60hz) ,the linux demo was recorded at ca. 200fps.
So while in windows, the physics seem to rather independent from fps, it´s a whole diffrent thing on linux.
Also, in the linux demo, almost every 2nd rifleshot just dissapears ?!
It seems that either the linux and windows binary are diffrent when it comes to physics, or linux and windows do some things very diffrently when it comes to fps.
(note that 3rd button emulation was off. In linux, this feature makes the first mouse button react with some msecs delay, but this time it´s not to blame)

Now, I probably won´t release this trickjumping map, since linux users seem not to be able to enjoy it at all.

This behaviour has been reported on several diffrent distros/computer setups.

see for yourself:
http://www.geocities.com/toke_gardens02/lin_vs_win-trickin.zip

It´s not that big an issue for actual gameplay (though it can be on several maps in 1on1 instagib) I really wonder why this happens. Days of building my map seem to be wasted, coz everyone should be able to play it, not just those on windows :(

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#1: some interesting additions

by kracho on 05/07/2005 16:16

http://phenix.rootshell.be/~kracho/lin_vs_win.zip

We\'ve done a bit of testing (bonx + kracho). Both players have an average FPS of 100, one is running Linux, the other one prefers Windows.

lw1.cdgz: as you can see the height of jumps is quite similar. Right = Linux, left = Windows.

lw1.cdgz: the linux person has a much higher kickback with his fists.

lw2.cdgz: exactly the opposite happens when we go for teh rifle.

Interesting, hu?

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#2: ..

by kracho on 05/07/2005 16:29

Errr:

lw1.cdgz: as you can see the height of jumps is quite similar. Right = Linux, left = Windows.

lw2.cdgz: the linux person has a much higher kickback with his fists.

lw3.cdgz: exactly the opposite happens when we go for teh rifle.

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#3: Re: some interesting additions

by kernowyon on 05/07/2005 16:34, refers to #1

I saw makkEs post and looked at the demos. Very interesting. I have a Windows PC - but never use it for Cube as I find Linux to be a smoother experience - but maybe thats my imagination?
Anyway, I ran a quick test on Aard3 myself. I didn't make all the jumps each time - but I didn't experience any of that missing shots that can be seen in makkEs demos. I do wonder if - in my case - the jumps I miss are down to sheer uselessness at boosted jumps on my part ;)
I will run the cheks a few times till I can get the jump sorted!
Frame rate around 200.

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#4: ..

by makkE on 05/07/2005 16:38

Intresting demos, there. Kerno, when I recorded that demo, the shots were there.. they just don´t appear on the demo.THis might be unrelated to the actual problem though.

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#5: ..

by BonX on 05/07/2005 16:46

iam the other person in krachos demos :P

im woundering about the big difference between fist and rifle kickbacks under win and linux

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#6: Re: some interesting additions

by kernowyon on 05/07/2005 16:50, refers to #3

OK. No successful jumps on this game.
This time the frame rate is affected by the bug which records it as a negative - wonder if that affects anything? The jumps with the rifle are exactly the same as if I had no rifle ( I tested that later).
Anyway - I stuck my demo up on -
http://www.kernowyon.co.uk/linux_stuff/yoper_linux.cdgz

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#7: ..

by makkE on 05/08/2005 00:29

I think I might know what´s been causing this:

Kracho just said, after compiling the linux bin himself, rifle´s and fist´s kickback would just behave like on windows.

I remember I had the may 2004 beta. Stanze (on linux) and me (win) were checking out the new kickback features.

When the release was there, I said: "what´s this, the fist´s kickback got less?" and she said "well no, been like that all the time"

sooo maybe the final release´s win client got compiled again, but not the linux client? Could this be the case?

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#8: ..

by makkE on 05/08/2005 16:54

Yes it seems to be.

Every mod that has linux-bins compiled after the 2004 release have kickback behaviour like the 2004 win32 binaries.
(rick's bots for example).

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#9: ..

by BonX on 05/08/2005 17:29

that means if u replace the linux bins from the 2004_05_22-Release with newer bins trickjumps should be also possible running linux ?

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#10: ..

by makkE on 05/08/2005 17:35

Yes, but you shouldn´t replace, just use a diffrent bin (just running rick´s bots would be easiest)

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#11: doh!

by Aardappel_ on 05/08/2005 19:44

Well, I remember that just before release, after initial testing, I made some tweaks to the kickback... the linux bins had already been made at that point, and since eihrul was unavailable at the time, I didn't want to wait for what I thought was such a small difference... since at the time I didn't think of "riflejumps" :)

I guess if eihrul wants he can recompile for all you pro-gamers out there :)

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#12: ..

by makkE on 05/08/2005 22:58

That´d be great :D trickin for everyone!!

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#13: Rifle jumping?

by Pxtl on 05/09/2005 01:10

How does that work?

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#14: ..

by makkE on 05/09/2005 01:14

You use the kickback to jump higher, just like rocket jumping.(aim at your feet, shoot and jump at the same time) You can jump up 6 cube high ledges for example.
Look at my win demo ;)
you can also combine strafejumping and riflejumping to jump further and higher.

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#15: forget trick jumping...

by Sparr on 05/09/2005 01:18

i havent even bothered trying to include trick jumping into my maps. i have to trivialize the jumps just to allow everyone to make them at all. i cant imagine the people who cant make normal jumps due to hardware/fps problems having any fun on a map where they have no chance of getting to anything at all.

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#16: ..

by makkE on 05/09/2005 01:33

Sparr, this map is designed exclusively for trickjumping, plus, now that the problem is solved, everyone can give it a try. (fps independent, my map's jumps are tested on 60fps (can't go lower))

I don't build any trickin possibilities into dm maps that would exclude ppl from having fun in it...

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#17: ..

by makkE on 05/09/2005 01:36

..just sometimes some that will give the one capable of tricking a small advantage ;) (you can't plan everything out anyways)

Furthermore, cube's trickin isn't really hard, compared to q3 stuff for example ;)

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#18: Re: ..

by Sparr on 05/09/2005 02:08, refers to #16

are you sure it cant go lower? ive got a very 'weak' series of jumps leading up to the quad on my map, but a lot of people with 60+ FPS cant make some of the VERY easy jumps. specifically, ive got one jump between two platforms approx 6 cubes apart (diagonal 4x4 plus two Korners), 4 cubes of vertical difference. I can make it at 5 vertical difference on my linux box, and 4 (but not 5) on my windows box (with 72 FPS), but some people cant even make it at 4. its very worrisome that there is that much difference. (might be off by one on the numbers).

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#19: ..

by makkE on 05/09/2005 02:28

6 cubes apart, that's no problem, BUT 5 cubes height diffrence-that's where the frame issue regarding simple jumping already kicks in. Usually you can only jump 4 cubes high in cube. 5 cubes high can be done at like 100fps+

So if you want everyone to get the jumps, make em 4 cubes height diffrence, no more.

For normal jumping (running straight forward, no strafing) the lenghts is 16 cubes. With strafing, you can jump up to 28 cubes (while it starts to get really tricky at like 22 cubes)

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#20: ..

by makkE on 05/09/2005 02:29

If ppl can't get up 4 cubes, they're jumping sloppy....

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