new classic SP gameplay discussion/feedback

by Aardappel on 04/10/2002 20:08, 29 messages, last message: 06/05/2002 08:20, 6260 views, last view: 05/17/2024 18:55

As you all know a lot has been tweaked w.r.t. the classic SP gameplay in the recent release. Even though quite a bit will be added, the basic gameplay is there, hence I want your feedback to make it better.

What I want specifically feedback on is the core gameplay and monster AI. If you read the gameplay doc, you will notice monster behaviour is now skill-dependant, and more importantly monster aiming lag has a big effect on gameplay. Very specific ideas on tweaking this are most welcome.

When commenting, remember the kind of gameplay I want to achieve: hardcore hectic intense super fast constant moving battles like some good doom sp maps have. So if you think gameplay should be more slow/tactical, then sorry, this will never be the case.

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#1: monster ai

by Goetzenzar on 04/10/2002 22:10

perhaps tweak the "viewzones" of monsters (= the "fov" and the size of the area when they "wake" up)
orgros should get a "viewzone" of 270+ at least.
rifle guys should have a very small fov, but should strafe more (to get the player into their "fov") and a big wake up area.
sorry if i dont make sense, generally, make em more characteristic (atm they only differ in armor etc, this would be the difference when doing more than 1 ogro (a red toned ogro = more aggressive etc)

oh and perhaps reduce the rocket launcher explosion size dependant on skill level (because im such a bad player and those guys still kill me on easy with those damn rocket explosions heh) (i first thought about make em aim worse, but reducing damage (explosion), u still have the fun of strafin on easy skill levels)

the rifle guys should attack only if they are close to you. (also make em move faster)

(and perhaps introduce a moonster that uses some sort of punch ? (but perhaps with a player knockback value ? kinda mixture between the pink doom1 demon and the ssam werebull)

the chaingun guy should have a longer firing thing -> german: "phase",
and while firing at you, thy shouldnt move (bit like the doom chaingun guys, but more mobile, and faster firing "phase" (dependant on skill level, on easy you should be able to strafe around them while they fire at the point were you stood some seconds ago :)

oh and i forgot, the ogros should move faster/slower, dependent on how far away the player is, means they just shoot fireballs if they are away, but move faster, and strafe around when they are close to the player.

ok, ill do a more detailed review and suggestions later (didnt play cube sp very long because lack of time)

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#2: Re: monster ai

by Goetzenzar on 04/10/2002 22:31, refers to #1

some more ideas that might be interesting:

dependant on how many monsters the player sees, reduce damage monster can give you.

and if there is an easy way to do this, dont make monsters kill each other so easy, perhaps make the monster immun against each other (each race - its still fun when monster fight against each others)
you have to tweak stuff there, because u can defeat 100 ogros without using a weapon = something is wrong there?
(and if you dont agree, then perhaps make a sp mode where you are not allowed to use weapons heh)

monster should go for health and maybe
powerups (perhaps bad idea)

make a modified ogro skin and make him shoot 3 fireballs at ones (or perhaps someone can make a ryu (streetfighter2 model? , bashing sf2 models would rock, as mini boss, heh)

1 type of monster shoulw warp around (warps behind you , in the part of viewfield you dont see)

(1) type of monster should be able to reset health (or that heals himself, of course not with stupid animation or something, just that it forces you to keep shooting at him)

a monster that splits in 2 monsters when you shoot him.

etc etc.
so many possibilities,
i should stop now =)

more goetz-ish ideas:

-a monster that eats newent lights
(and shits em out with light value 50% reduced)

a monster that is leaving a key or a carrot when you killed him
(hey, thats a really good idea :),
also prevents you from just collecting key and escaping )

non-monster ideas:

-a triggger that changes the .czg

-a trigger that turns everything upside down (i mean not the fov, but all the architecture,
the editheight positive get negative, heightfield 0 gets heightfield 2 etc.)
(and perhaps with the ability for monsters to walk (and shoot at you) on ceiling ? :) )

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#3: Re: monster ai

by Al_Capone on 04/10/2002 23:08, refers to #2

Another kid in a candy store :)

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#4: monsters

by pushplay on 04/11/2002 06:25

I would personally like to see a larger variety of monsters. Eg:
*a monster that can crawl on walls and ceilings, with a short ranged attack
*a monster that divides into 2 when 'killed,' until a certain size is reached
*minibosses!

I would also love to see the ability to turn monsters to your side, through some sort of item, or have a character you just need to reach to activate and have on your side.

Having a co-op mode with a computer player would just be a logical extension of this.

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#5: Re: monsters

by Al_Capone on 04/11/2002 07:16, refers to #4

I would like to see DEA and FBI's so I can chop of there head like splatter house.

Also, those rips look mighty good, how about players that eat rips for health.

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#6: ok..

by Aardappel on 04/11/2002 11:15

goetz:
- monster "awareness" will be improved
- I would like a monster with a melee attack yes, but I am in dire need of actual good monster models before I add more monsters.
- the monsters currently stop when shooting, maybe not long enough... I'll increase it.
- sorry, monster infighting is a core tactic of the game. there may be SP maps in the future where you don't have enough ammo to kill all monsters by hand. sure you can kill 100 ogros without shooting... but thats part of the idea. it certainly is harder with other monsters.
- having different skinned monsters is maybe an idea for the lack of models... I'll think about it.
rest of the ideas: sorry, but no.

pushplay: with the lack of real monsters, I hardly have models for wacky ones :) I personally don't like friendly monsters, they are usually more burden than help.

al capone: isn't the machine gun guy already like an FBI guy? :) Hmmm gibs for health, that's not a bad idea.......

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#7: Actually

by SleepwalkR on 04/11/2002 14:21

I like the fact that monsters attack each other a lot. It's very simple but it adds so much fun. Nothing like watching a bunch of monsters beat the shit out of each other.

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#8: monsters

by pushplay on 04/12/2002 00:38

I'll keep my eye out for less conventional free models. Something that may not necessarily have been used in Quake.

I don't personally like monsters attacking one another, as a strategy it's boring (in Doom anyways). It's also pretty easy. Just get the meele baddies between you and the ranged guys.

If I had enough patience I could probably get through episode I of Doom with just the chainsaw, but that would take too long.

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#9: Re: ok..

by Al_Capone on 04/12/2002 04:59, refers to #6

Well, I hate government alot, I thinking of throwing the game in there face and pissing them off. :) Maybe have some shivial in there boots while you pop a bullet up there ass ;)

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#10: aard

by pushplay on 04/12/2002 07:15

You looking for something like this little axe weilding imp?

http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/downloads/index.asp?model=425

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#11: Re: aard

by Al_Capone on 04/12/2002 08:03, refers to #10

He doesn't look much like an FBI or a DEA, maybe he can chop there heads off at least.

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#12: pushplay

by Aardappel on 04/12/2002 10:21

well if you don't enjoy monster-infighting in doom you certainly like a different gameplay that I do. It excites me time & time again :)

that goblin is pretty good... I'll check him out.

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#13: Re: pushplay

by Al_Capone on 04/12/2002 10:36, refers to #12

Voted ten on the list, so is spawn.

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#14: Re: pushplay

by pushplay on 04/12/2002 18:22, refers to #13

Maybe I'm weird like that, but I want to be the one doing the ass kicking. ;)

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#15: Yes and no...

by Fern on 04/13/2002 20:21

Vehemently opposed: Monsters going after powerups (since the gameplay makes them so integral to surviving), Rail guy only attacking when close up (because he's a frigging sniper)

Vehemently in favor: Flying enemy, swimming enemy, increasing monster FOV, allowing some monsters to hear.

Also I noticed that things slow down considerably when a monster is on top of you or vice versa, everything gets confused and acts stupid. Would it really be noticeable if it were just made impossible for a human and monster to occupy the same z-axis? I never really noticed when that was done in Doom. :)

I can't get over how cool cube is, honestly. back to breakfast/mapping =)

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#16: fern:

by Aardappel on 04/13/2002 21:37

flying: who knows
swimming: yes, will be fixed
more monster fov: yes, 150 -> 180
more hearing: yes
fixing on top of eachother: yes

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#17: Swimming! :)

by Fern on 04/13/2002 21:39

I probably wasn't clear enough. I didn't mean making the present monsters swim (although maybe it's weird that they jump in the water and can't get out.) I meant actually having a monster that swims, like a rotfish or Ssam Reeban Fish :)

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#18: just some ideas

by underworldfan on 04/13/2002 21:50

i think you need some slightly more powerful, but slower moving monsters, to add "Weight" to the enemy list, ie equivalent of Vores/Shamblers in Quake.

Also i think one/two of the existing enemies (maybe sniper guy/mafia suit guy) should take more damage, at the moment its a bit too easy just to mow them all down with the chaingun/shotgun.

Chaingun is my favourite weapon so far by the way.

Am i allowed too suggest extra weapons here as well?

1. Plasma/lightning Gun
2. Some kind of NailGun, =)
3. Something that fires metal discs that slice enemies heads off, like that weapon in unreal tournament (can not remember the name).

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#19: underworldfan

by Aardappel on 04/14/2002 13:43

I would love heavier/different monster, though thats hard without models. The free q2 models are all very humanoid.

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#20: SP Mode

by rickclark on 04/14/2002 19:57

I don't have any major complaints, other than not having doors, keys and switches (lifts would be cool as well). :) Actually, the doors are not a major problem, since I am using teleports to serve that function.

The real problem is that there are no goals (i.e. keys to find, switches to throw) that can be defined (yet), so the SP mode really is just a directed DMSP. I know it is coming and I love the progress being made so far. Looking forward to the next release.

The water is very nice; I'll need to rework some of my maps to add some water. The trees also add quite a bit to the maps. I just wish I had more free time. :)

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