Map Editing

by Goetzenzar on 01/05/2002 19:30, 4767 messages, last message: 10/18/2021 18:52, 2847068 views, last view: 12/09/2021 06:37

Welcome to the map editing saloon:
here u can post ur screens, maps, comments, questions and answers about mapediting, and meet other ppl for coop-sessions online :)

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#1576: Re: ..

by tentus on 05/06/2005 02:20, refers to #1575

i hope you've gotplenty of occulders int hat map, that's pretty serious, especially if you've got water in there.

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#1577: ..

by makkE on 05/06/2005 03:34

Iīve seen that map. Itīs pretty got bad performance.

You need to keep in mind that cubeīs engine is simply not designed to support room over room. Using mapmodels for that is just a cheap workaround, and should be handled cautiously.

Furthermore, if youīd have enough occluders in that map to compensate for the about 2500 extra tris you got in there, youīd probably run into problems because of mapmodel occlusion (flickering models).

Intresting layouts and the impression of a map that has several levels can be done without ror as well.

So.. floating architectur can be done, but only to a certain degree.(if you want the map to be enyoyable for everone within cubeīs reccomended (and quite above) system specs).

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#1578: Re: ..

by Sparr on 05/06/2005 06:10, refers to #1577

Yes, I remember you came in and complained and left. If you had stayed around I would have gotten some details from you. WQD on my map averages around 3000, with extremes of 500 and 5500. 5500 cubes plus 34 Ivy mapmodels plus 98 Bridge mapmodels. I am trying to get feedback from people with low-end machines in order to figure out exactly how much of the slowdown is because of high WQD due to almost no occlusion, and how much is due to mapmodels. Just removing 40 Ivy models improved one guy's FPS from 7 to 10 (on a TNT2) at the worst-case position on the map (standing on the second pillar in the staircase to the quad, looking across the middle of the map).

What were your settings for minlod, fpsrange, fog, etc?

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#1579: ..

by makkE on 05/06/2005 15:22

The Ivy model has insane polycounts, unfortunately.(1904) That makes a total of 67 088 polygons (including bridges) of which about 1/2-2/3 are permanently rendered in your map. +1000-10000 tris from the cubes...
You are reaching bout 4-6x q3 specs there.

Try to drastically reduce the number of ivy models.

Minlod, fpsrange and fog donīt do very much on my system here. Minlod at 100 but inactive in your map.
These tweaking options rather work at the lower end of systems.

The positive thing is see is that you at least do think about performance, unlike many others ;)

@dcp: Why didnīt you make at least the Ivy-leaves flat? They donīt need any volume. Would have saved ca. 700 tris.

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#1580: Re: ..

by Sparr on 05/06/2005 18:48, refers to #1579

WOW, 1904 polygons. I had no idea. But they provide such nice cover :( I will definitely be getting rid of all non-essential Ivy.

It is sad that more mappers arent at least somewhat concerned with performance :(

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#1581: Re: ..

by Sparr on 05/06/2005 19:03, refers to #1580

I now have 14 Ivy models. Oh - My - God. Deleting 20 Ivy models lowered my non-occluded EVT from 220000 to *105000*.

makkE, next time you see a server running my map, please join and tell me if it makes a difference.

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#1582: ..

by makkE on 05/06/2005 21:53

Ok, Iīll do :)

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#1583: Re: ..

by dcp on 05/07/2005 20:41, refers to #1579

if you remove one side of a leaf, it get's invisible, when you look at it from this side.

i use ivy models in rooms only, so if you leave the room, it's occluded and no longer adds to the polys...

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#1584: ..

by makkE on 05/07/2005 20:48

dcp: you can simply have 2 faces on 3 verts. This way you can make front and backface on a flat thing.

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#1585: Re: ..

by tentus on 05/10/2005 03:13, refers to #1584

i think the way DCP models results in hihger poly models than someone using q2modeller. i'll see if i can't make my own, lower-poly equivalent of the vines. i'll make then half as wide as the current vines so mappers can get a bit more control too :)

makkE: i was looking at your torch model and it occured to me that we could cut up the lit model so it could combine with the unlit model, so that you have a bit more control over the flame. would you mind if i made some variants of your flame that will interface with your torch? i can put them in the models/makke/ file if you want.

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#1586: Re: ..

by dcp on 05/10/2005 04:08, refers to #1584

tried this sometime ago but it didn't work, one of the faces simply dissapeared.

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#1587: ..

by makkE on 05/10/2005 14:18

Tentus: Of course go ahead. Good idea.

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#1588: ..

by staffy2005 on 05/17/2005 10:21

what do you think of this:
http://img160.echo.cx/my.php?image=hfr4lq.jpg

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#1589: Re: ..

by jean pierre on 05/17/2005 14:51, refers to #1588

Cool.....How boring SauerBraten isn't playable yet D:

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#1590: Re: ..

by tentus on 05/17/2005 20:02, refers to #1585

finally got around to making that ivy model i said i would. i'll upload it... somewhere... hopefully today, but the point is, the performance change is huge. i got it to look very very similar, while cutting the vertex count down to 400 and the polycount to just under 800.

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#1591: Help a Noob Sir?

by Wesley on 05/21/2005 00:01

Ok, well I just picked up this whole Cube thingy, and needless to say its pretty well rounded. Hats off to the creator anyhow. But, when I go to design maps of my own, I run into a spot of trouble. You see whenever I place monster entities, they just don\'t come up. The little orb of light is there, but the monster is not. Oh and also I have saved my little level just to see that I can, and I find that I cannot open it again.......anywhere...I\'ve tried looking for it in the main menu in the game, and in the root folder on my comp. Any suggestions for a handicapped noob?

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#1592: ..

by makkE on 05/21/2005 04:18

Okay, first, itīs normal that the monsters wonīt appear. Same goes for entities (ammo and stuff)
Youīll have to save your map and then load it again.Then stuff will work.

/savemap mymap
then
/map mymap
Where "mymap" is anything you choose for your mapīs name.

And after that everything (monsters etc...) is there.
Your map wonīt appear in the menus.
The maps are saved to cube/packages/base.

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#1593: Re: ..

by staffy2005 on 05/21/2005 05:22, refers to #1592

try editing in /mode -2 as well...

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#1594: Re: ..

by tentus on 05/22/2005 02:14, refers to #1592

not strictly true, you have to be in SP for monsters to appear. if you're editing in SP (only do this after you're pretty sure of your layout) just hit E a few times and they'll appear and disappear as nescessary.so really:

/savemap mymap
/sp mymap
hit E frequesntly, and R too. lighting can change your mind on monster placement dramatically, once you really sink your teeth into it.

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#1595: Re: ..

by spentron on 05/22/2005 15:04, refers to #1594

Yeah, hit E/edit ... save your map before spending any time out of edit though, otherwise if they kill you the map will be gone.

It's a good idea to spend some time out of edit mode to get some sense of scale and moving in it. Flying around makes everything seem much smaller. Monsters also help see the scale, even when making a map actually for DM.

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