Sauerbraten Open Source Project?

by Aardappel on 01/21/2004 04:40, 94 messages, last message: 03/18/2004 20:41, 43514 views, last view: 05/05/2024 17:12

This discussion is for determining whether there is interest, skill, and determination available in the Cube community to make Sauerbraten an Open Source project... as in, one with many contributors.

You probably all have seen Sauerbraten on my main page, if not: http://wouter.fov120.com/sauerbraten/index.html

It really is a wonderful concept if I may dare say so myself. It also requires quite a bit more work than cube did and involves significantly more complex algorithms. I have been torn what to do with it for quite a while. Between Cube (which I want to continue) and my new gamedesign projects and my job, I am not sure whether there will be enough time for me completing it entirely on my own.

Normally I simply write software, and then open source it once I am finished, with sauerbraten I will consider a new direction, and make it a open source project all along. If this is succesful I may even consider making cube an open project, though I don't know how yet.

I would like to hear everybodies input, especially that of serious potential contributors. And here lies a problem, as you are all aware of the many projects that have people apply to do great amounts of work for and then absolutely nothing happens. I don't want to have to deal with that. Not everyone will be able to commit to the project, only very serious, committed and qualified people. If no such people are available, Sauerbraten will remain closed.

Also I still am an arrogant bastard, and will expect those working on the project to follow my guidelines for the design of sauerbraten closely. It will thus be more of an open cathedral rather than a bazaar :) But hopefully those who see the quality of Cube & Sauerbraten see that as a good thing.

let the ideas flow...

   Board Index   

#75: Re: large maps

by fsmunoz on 03/09/2004 00:05, refers to #73

Lurch... "open source fans" come from a variatie of backgrounds. Some of the more competent programmers I know develop free software.

reply to this message

#76: ..

by Aardappel on 03/09/2004 03:20

model formats: the problem with own formats is that you need to write exporters for a variety of packages. I have a nice skeletal animation exporter (for 3dsmax) that could be worth adding to cube/saurbraten at some stage. Alternatively the md3 format is the logical progression of md2 (less quantisation problems etc).

yes sauerbraten supports huuuuuge maps, its not scale dependent like cube.

We'll have to see how this idea of making sauerbraten open source goes, if it turns out no work on it gets done then its just a failed experiment and I'll see what to do with it next.

reply to this message

#77: Re: ..

by pushplay on 03/09/2004 05:43, refers to #76

Open source projects rise and fall on their leadership. I know you like to take a laid back stance, but sometimes you have to beat the drum.

reply to this message

#78: .

by Gilt on 03/09/2004 16:37

Well, I might be able to help out. I won't have any time until at least the end of the month, but we'll see.

I haven't touched C/C++ in a while (been mostly playing around in VHDL etc recently), but I figure programming's pretty much all the same, and I suppose I'm a fairly competent programmer.

Anyhow, this is more of a "Don't pack up shop until I get to check the wares" type post; no guarentees that I'll do anything, yet.

reply to this message

#79: Re: large maps

by lurch on 03/09/2004 22:57

I know, I said "most"....
I think.

reply to this message

#80: VHDL

by pushplay on 03/10/2004 01:37

You just brought back a lot of horrible memories for me.

reply to this message

#81: Re: ..

by Aardappel on 03/11/2004 21:12, refers to #77

I don't mind "beating the drum"... that's what I keep doing.. but if I had time work on it actively and regularly myself I wouldn't have open sourced it. So some programmers will have to take initiative in doing some of the missing pieces in getting sauerbraten into a usable state.

reply to this message

#82: Re: .

by Aardappel on 03/11/2004 21:14, refers to #78

good to see you back Gilt... if not your coding skills, then certainly your mapping skills will come in handy at some point :) One of your quake maps was practically a "cube" map already ;)

Have a look at the documentation and code that's already there, and try out if you can manage to get something useful done. If so I'd happily add you to the commit list.

reply to this message

#83: Re: ..

by mike on 03/14/2004 22:32, refers to #63

will ther be a way to import
"Normal 3ds or similar modells ??"

..
is it possible to implement spline path following elements ??

(cars, elevators etc,,,,)

thanks for reply
uBm

reply to this message

#84: Re: ..

by Aardappel on 03/16/2004 00:00, refers to #83

If your interest is to create art with Max, there are a million better engines out there than Sauerbraten. The whole point of this engine is to not need external modelling tools, and to do things faster/different/more fun than those tools.

reply to this message

#85: Re: ..

by sinsky on 03/16/2004 10:58, refers to #84

Then you should consider making your own format for models, too (unless this engine is going to be something alien, with no real difference between the map and the models, both being objects of the same format but of different type; personally, I would like to see that).

reply to this message

#86: Re: ..

by dcp on 03/16/2004 19:26, refers to #85

if he makes his own format for models, NOone will be able to contribute models (mapmodels, weapons or player models) anymore.

tell me one GOOD reason why aard should change the model format

reply to this message

#87: Re: ..

by Aardappel on 03/16/2004 22:11, refers to #86

The modelformat is a different story. Sauerbraten supports .md2 format now (due to its Cube base), but should move to a slightly better format (at least .md3, maybe something more advanced)

reply to this message

#88: Re: ..

by sinsky on 03/17/2004 10:15, refers to #86

I don't know how Sauerbraten works so sorry if it sounds silly. The way I see it, developing an internal format for models will not disable the option to load an entity in .md2 for example, just add the option to use an internal format for that object. While developing this may take a lot of time, it may attract people who are not comfort with external formats of software they haven't bought and enable them to do more in the engine.

And now the most silly part - if everything is in a format that can be animated, one can make maps with really fantastic look.. I think.

reply to this message

#89: wait...

by Pxtl on 03/17/2004 17:55

So you want to design an in-engine modelling/animation system, similar to how Sauer has an in-engine mapping system? Good luck - you'll need it.

reply to this message

#90: ..

by sinsky on 03/17/2004 19:02

"let the ideas flow..." - it's up to you to filter what makes sense.

Is it so hard to animate for example a cube? It can be modelled as part of the map, but given the properties of a monster - moves, shoots something, has a texture with a cool caption - "hey, I'm the cube!", etc. It only needs something which identifies it - a name, or perhaps simply a number, and the configuration file of the map to add some properties to the default ones. Sounds like fun and a good beginning, but if it isn't - you're right. There's no point in doing it this way.

reply to this message

#91: Re: Spline Paths...

by e:n:i:g:m:a on 03/17/2004 19:58, refers to #83

The spline path idea isn't a bad one at all. All you would need to do is create a special kind of tag, have a couple parameters (direction [x, y, z], mapmodel or room slice?, and speed).

Then you can add the actual movement timings and stuff in the config file using scripting. You could even have some pre-defined commands that set paramaters up for you, like having a mapmodel follow the slope, or straight up&down etc.

I would really like this too.

reply to this message

#92: all that

by Aardappel on 03/18/2004 01:19

would certainly be possible... but not until more basic engine stuff is in place I think. Yes you could just add new model format parallel to md2.

reply to this message

#93: Re: all that

by dcp on 03/18/2004 06:40, refers to #92

but when s.o. introduces a totally new model format to the engine, how should anyone actually make a model in this format? s.o. will have to code a totally new modelling application or at least a plugin for an existing one who's first? ;-)

reply to this message

#94: Re: all that

by Aardappel on 03/18/2004 20:41, refers to #93

Writing an exporter for max is easy as hell... I can supply code for that. Sure that limits people using max for modelling, but that's why you would still continue to support older formats as well I guess.

reply to this message

   Board Index