Sauerbraten on Steam maybe

by white_waluigi on 01/30/2013 21:02, 38 messages, last message: 07/01/2013 19:24, 11567 views, last view: 04/24/2024 00:14

I just though if it was a good idea to submit the game to Valve.
Because there's only one free Linux game
(TF2) reight now, i think it has good chance to be admitted.
I'm sure that it would get yo a lot more players.

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#1: ..

by white_waluigi on 01/30/2013 21:03

sorry for the typos.
F***kin 10$ keyboard

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#2: Re: ..

by Razgriz on 02/12/2013 11:39, refers to #1

No.

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#3: Re: ..

by cmCooper on 02/22/2013 21:00, refers to #1

That sounds like a great idea for more people to know Sauerbraten. I don\\\'t use Steam, no idea what limitations or difficulties there are to submit a game?

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#4: Re: ..

by cmCooper on 02/22/2013 21:01, refers to #3

Valve I mean ^^ Stupid typos!!!

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#5: Re: ..

by Q009 on 02/22/2013 21:05, refers to #3

Greenlight. Lets people vote for games. Best ones get into Steam

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#6: ..

by Razgriz on 02/22/2013 21:30

Again, no.

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#7: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 02/23/2013 12:54, refers to #5

Why do we even want to be dependent from Steam? It's a limitation which we put on ourselves. We don't need it anyway.

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#8: Re: ..

by Q009 on 02/23/2013 13:08, refers to #7

Why do you ask me? It's not me who wants to put it on Steam...

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#9: Re: ..

by Daedalus on 02/26/2013 01:48, refers to #6

I for one think this is an outstanding idea. Steam has an very stable platform and the integration of the Steamworks framework into the game would be another plus. Anyone who fails to see any advantages to this idea either has no idea how Steam works or is pulling a Richard Stallman because it's not called GNU Steam. Just because it's not open source doesn't mean it's the devil. Besides, nobody seems to have a problem with Sauerbraten being offered on Desura. This is an opportunity to open the game to even more people.

Advantages of Steam:
-Larger, multi-platform user base can hear about the game and see videos, content, and updates.
-More users means more content, and this could be in the form of the Steam Workshop at some point, where maps are automatically downloaded and updated as their authors make changes.
-The game can be AUTOMATICALLY updated, thus making the whole process easier on eihrul, and making the likelihood future updates more likely.
-The game can still be played with non-Steam users, so those who choose to not use it would in no way be affected by this.

Disadvantages:
-<insert here>

If you don't like Steam, but can't present a legitimate reason for that, don't waste your time or anybody else's, please.

This is a forum for polite and constructive conversation. Being dismissive just makes you look stubborn. I look forward to everyone's input. Thanks!

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#10: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 02/26/2013 06:32, refers to #9

"The game can be updated automaticly"
We already can. It's called SVN-version.
Why you probably don't know this? Because if we going to explain to every newcomer how to get it, we would only be doing that instead of coding, mapping, modding, scripting, etc.
Could we write a tutorial how to get SVN? Try ogros.org.

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#11: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 02/26/2013 06:41, refers to #9

A map-updater has been suggested a lot if times already, even without the call of steam.

... Desura, wut?

It's eventually up to our main developer to decide if a feature makes it wether or not. You can try pushing your will trough, but in most cases it will be ignored.

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#12: Re: ..

by Razgriz on 02/26/2013 07:09, refers to #9

I'll tell you on disadvantage that you're all ignoring: licensing issues.

A lot of content in sauerbraten is exclusive to the game, and its licensing wouldn't allow it to be upped on the steam platform. We could track down all the people who've contributed something, but most of them have disappeared so the chances of finding them are moot.

Besides, the game is still property of Aard, so if he won't go along with the idea to transform sauer into something steam-worthy either, the odds of this happening are practically 0%.

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#13: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 02/26/2013 09:47, refers to #12

Furthermore, would are developers feel the mood to put time in ANOTHER extern project? I doubt it. Let them concentrate on their goals instead.

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#14: ..

by cmCooper on 02/28/2013 01:21

I agree with Daedalus and would love to hear about disadvantages of using steam.
Suicizer:
Updating the game automatically means the game itself realizes when it's time to update and integrates the process in such a way that
1. anyone not familiar with manually downloading/installing can update the game without problem
2. you don't have to visit any site by hand, don't have to select any folders/files etc and just need to decide wether you want to update or not.

"We already can, the SVN version" Now who do you want to sell the SVN stuff as "automatic update", all those intricate, slow, annoying things you need to make are totally unacceptable for newcomers and average players and may only be used by programmers.
An, what you call, "automatic update", for which you need to check ogros.org first to learn how it works? I can't take you seriously.
"Why you probably don't know this?"
"Because if we going to explain to every newcomer how to get it, we would only be doing that instead of coding, mapping, modding, scripting, etc."
Why he probably doesn't know it? No, not because you, the imporant Suicizer did not explain it to him and no, not because he failed to read an tutorial on that on ogros.org but because the current "system" fails on that.
If there would be an updating mechanism that would be self-explaining the way it should be, you wouldn't need to "explain" anymore and could focuse more on your other, very meaningful activities.
Concerning the mapupdater, I don't think there is a need for something like that, updating the maps with new releases/patches seems fine, no need for being able to modify them all the time.

"We don't need it anyway."
Uuuuuh yes, we, the mighty Sauerbraten community "don't need" Steam, we can just keep everything as it is, with our 3 to 5, ...at least at evening...full fragging servers, which have...wow...2 different types of gamemodes, followed by 2 to 5 coop servers which usually have...wow...not more than 4 people on them and in case we don't find a server of our gusto, we can enjoy the remaining approx...wow...18 pages of empty servers. FOLKS, let's just keep ourselves FREE from the EVIL LIMITATIONS of Steam and just keep Sauerbraten the way it is: A little, barely known, monotone shooter with an underrated editor, so that ALL those limitations which we have RIGHT now, the lack of gamemodes in multiplayer, the empty servers and most important; a community so tiny, that people full of hot air are having the loudest voice, WILL REMAIN FOREVR!

To me it seems like Steam would be a good chance to bring Sauerbraten forward. What Suicizer said seems unimporant to me but the aspect Razgriz mentioned, with the licenses was also mentioned by eihrul in #sauerbraten channel, it would be good to have a qualified person to get to know about that or find out about it. It would be nice to know, if the people who have the final decision about putting Sauerbraten on steam, can at least imagine doing that.

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#15: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 02/28/2013 02:09, refers to #14

"Which have...wow...2 different types of gamemodes"
Actually 3... We can blame the community for that.

It's not that hard to get SVN. Just follow the tutorial.

You seem to forget it's stillAardappel's property and eihrul's project which you are playing. You have nothing to say about the game neither the engine unless being asked. This counts, for anyone which has no access to the SVN repository (as in submitting content to it).

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#16: Re: ..

by Daedalus on 02/28/2013 06:56, refers to #10

I do know what the SVN is, and I have used it frequently. However, you are assuming that every single user can use it, that is simply not the case.

Second, in terms of licensing, in my personal opinion, the game is still open source, and if there is a problem they can take the initiative to make contact and their content can either have its license changed or replaced. That would be the case if there was actually a problem with the licensing, which, to the best of my ability to search for, I cannot find anything suggesting there would be a restriction. Also, I can almost guarantee you that nobody will want their work removed from a FREE game on Steam getting tons of publicity with their names clearly marked on the files as it already is.

Third, integrating a game into Steam isn't complicated at all.

Fourth, the SVN releases aren't always stable. With Steam, the dev has control on which version gets published and released to the end-users.

These are just my opinions and input into the conversation. Thank you for keeping it civil and lets keep this discussion going.

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#17: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 02/28/2013 09:30, refers to #16

Unlike other games, Sauerbraten and the Cube Engine 2 always had the hierarchy that only the developer(s) decide what happens in terms of updates or a new release. As the famous phrase says; "it's free as in beer, not in speech". There are certain persons which aren't coders yet have acces to add content directly to Sauerbraten (not the engine as that's purely code. They are usually artists like Nieb).

Take it as another weight to carry for the developers to make sure every new update would need to be stable.

So there definitely are cons and not just all pro's.
I somewhat agree Sauerbraten could use some publicity, but what about trying it with Red Eclipse first? After all, that game has way less license violations (if there actually are). It may need it even more as Sauerbraten does. Another option. Is when Tesseract would ever be an independent mod.

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#18: ..

by Zamwa on 02/28/2013 16:27

Open source isn't about paying a hundred dollar publisher fee! It makes a bad incentive to induce user cost! Lets try to put linux distros on steam "no wait that goes against are business model" nope!

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#19: ..

by Razgriz on 02/28/2013 19:27

You can discuss it all you want, but the point is Sauer won't be going on steam anytime soon

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#20: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 02/28/2013 20:23, refers to #19

That's just the reason why I suggested Red Eclipse. It could be a good experiment bunny to try if it's really is worth doing so.

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