The next update

by legodt on 05/06/2011 01:24, 333 messages, last message: 10/18/2012 04:52, 145262 views, last view: 12/09/2021 06:26

What are the sort of things that the playerbase can expect from the next Sauerbraten update? Gamemodes, user interfaces, or graphical updates?

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#180: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 11/17/2011 16:50, refers to #177

I recommend you order your ideas next time, as It's pretty clutterish right now (like as:
- server-based
- gameplay-based
- gui-based
- etc

This would end up long lines with text where you jump from the first subject to another in a a split second.

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#181: How did this turn into a wish list thread?

by baby~rabbit on 11/17/2011 21:20

If you read the initial post for this thread, it said "What are the sort of things that the playerbase can expect from the next Sauerbraten update? Gamemodes, user interfaces, or graphical updates?"

The answer was: read the history.html file in svn.

The end.

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#182: ..

by mI@school on 11/17/2011 23:26

I agree with honzik that spawning is a problem. I think a nice solution would be to temporarily disable spawn points when enemy players are within a certain radius of them. Or at least decrease their chance of spawning right then.

This way you cut down on players spawning right by one another.

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#183: Re: ..

by Quin on 11/18/2011 02:49, refers to #174

> A) I think SCORE system could be way how to make people playing more as team
> B) You could add team-player location to radar, it will also support to play more as team

Red Eclipse has both of these, and neither helped people work together as a team any more or a less. The unfortunate thing is that 90% of the people playing are just there to "shoot stuff, the end".

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#184: Re: ..

by Zorg on 11/18/2011 06:02, refers to #183

So the basic code is already there, it doesn't hurt the 90% and it would be a good feature for parts of the remaining 10%.

Sometimes you get lucky and 4 or 5 players of each team actually try to win the game. These are hte intense matches which have always been keeping me playing Sauerbraten.

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#185: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 11/18/2011 10:29, refers to #183

Well, I'm pretty sure on clanwars, knowing where your teammates are is a very nice opportunity as you need to relay on your teammates even more.
It's true that on a mode like instactf it won't have much effect to show up teammates on the radar, as it's really just "gun'n run".
But I'm pretty sure it would be affect the teamplay on a mode like capture, where the radar is way more necassery as you also need to see which bases are getting captured and by who.
Take for example this situation:
Your opponent is trying to capture 1 of your bases.
Your seeing the happening on the radar.
You try to be as fast as possible to that specific base, to prevent it gets captured by the opponent.
While you arrived at the base, some other teammate already killed the opponent, which makes you left your position for nothing.
In this case, showing where your teammates are won't be bad at all and would provide better teamplay.

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#186: Re: ..

by Quin on 11/18/2011 11:35, refers to #185

I don't disagree, I'm just saying that in most cases it doesn't help people actually participate in objective teamplay. I implemented these things in RE for the very reasons you state, but don't be looking for me to do it in Sauerbraten because I don't have that kind of say on the subject.

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#187: ..

by Honzik1 on 11/18/2011 13:44

"What's the sense of delaying spectators for 10 seconds?" Spectators on mumble say where enemy is, it gives advantage, almost like you have wallhack or something.

"Server list as itemn in menu? What do you mean mate?"
In 99% You click on Multiplayer/Server-broswer, so why there is not Server-broswer directly in the main menu?

"Players which have the quad currently get an extra mesh added to the playermodel " I use ogro, its probably not there :(

- gamespeed: its only function in demo replay. More comfortable would be sliders (time and speed slider)



Teamates on your radar will not support bigger chaos in team-play, its sure! :-) Also you know where your teammate died when he disappeared on the radar.

Here is example how I edited map list for voting:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/265/screenshot52386.jpg/
I dont know why this cannot be by default. (A-Z)

"A bigger grenade radius wouldn't be bad, but would create a lot of spam in modes like efficiency or tactics, which isn't a very great situation."
I dont think so, not much players use this weapon in eff, cuz its not much effective, it needs to be balanced on optimal to protect spamming and also disusing.

Anyway, I think spawn system quite destroy the game. You added random spawning for armors, to make game more balanced (against countdown timers), why you didnt add random spawning?

EXAMPLE: In Face-Capture when I attack, I always run with crosshair on front spawn-place.

Skilled player doesnt need to be so good in aim, he just need to know where are spawn places and then he is checking them during the run through the map.

EXAMPLE2: Look to gameplay 3on3 Capture-Night, there are many symetric spawn places on opposite side. Everyone camp from "balcony" to opposite enemy balcony directly on spawn place.

Also when you play clanwar, the tactic is: When you steal enemy flag, then run and watch only visible spawn places and be ready to shot there.

Now in Sauer, you dont need reload when you shot and you are immediately killed. So after respawn you can immediately shot. You balanced 1on1 by this a bit, because after death you can immeditely spawn while enemy is still realoading. But in team modes enemy have time to reload and wait you on next spawn and only faster finger decide.

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#188: Re: ..

by Drekow on 11/18/2011 13:53, refers to #183

"shoot stuff, the end" is the only way to play on online 9vs9 servers.

A solution could be to have a player limit of 8. But this way matches will be a lot more unbalanced than now.

So you need a gameplay skill measurer to let play of the same level play each other...

As now I think sauerbraten is nice as it is. But, if we wants to see the best fps ever, developers have to choose: online casual play or cw.

All the suggestion proposed by Honzik1 and others on the relative quadropolis node, are good for a cube 3; or a cube 2.5. For what i can understand there is a lot of code modification e related gamplay to justify the switch to a new (but not totally new) game. And choose the direction to follow.

I hope the game will be 95% cw oriented, ingame full stats and clan support, ad using the tacked data to support cheating fight.

Only one about honzik1 area idea for capture. I like capture as it is and putting an area will made a different mode, but it could be a greater mode, were a team have to conquest and control a true area. I hope to see a material "base" and "vbase n" to set the areas...

I read lots of stuff, most of them are good, but no officially critics to them.

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#189: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 11/18/2011 14:48, refers to #187

To Honzik,
- Delaying spectators is already being done on servers like "psl.sauerleague.org", so it's just a matter of using the same version as those servers do if you want some "fair" play on official matches.
-It's not logical at all to have the server browser directly into the main menu, as it's for playing in multiplayer, so should be at that point.
-It's true that ogro isn't showing if he has a quad or not, but that's probably up to GearTrooper to create, as he seems to be the most experienced artist for modeling. Of course it still requires some coding, as the ogro-model could use the quadrings of the old ironsnout (which are still implemented into Sauerbraten somehow).
It's true that knowing where your teammate died could give your calculations of the opponent's position more clear. But don't forget Sauerbraten is such fast-paced game that this won't be that great at all, as the opponent probably is at the half of the map already before you even noticed that your teammate died.
- Grenades do get used often, but just as some "secondary" weapon. This probably will always be like that, even with a bigger radius. Besides, the rate of fire of the grenade launcher is pretty high already, so increasing the blast-radius won't have much effect at all.
- Adding a slider can be done by cubescript, so just go make it.
Besides, gamespeed is NOT only used when replaying a demo, as it's also used for SinglePlayer.
- Just go whine to eihrul about ordering the maps, I'm pretty sure he won't even take a look at this content.
- As your telling so, it's a matter of the map which kills the gameplay. Playerstarts shouldn't be added in areas which are as open as on face-capture, neither on capture-night. They should have been added on a place which do provide cover, to prevent the player gets killed just right after spawning.
About that you can shoot right after you spawn, I doubt you hit the opponent's flagholder in the very first second after you spawned, unless the flagholder is a pretty unskilled player and your just lucky having your crosshair very close to that opponent already.
After all, your just talking about insta-ctf which is only a very small part of the gameplay on Sauerbraten. Don't forget that are way more team-modes then insta-ctf, like teamplay, insta-team, capture, regen-capture, hold, insta-hold, ctf, effic-ctf, protect and insta-protect.
Read my comment a little more precise, as I already stated it's a matter of how much playerstarts are existing in the map and the positions of those playerstarts, which provide spawn-camping or protect for being spawn-camped.

To Dekrow,
- Developers of Sauerbraten doesn't have choose between casual play or cw, as both can be combined.
My opinion on that is, let's go back to the days which Sauerbraten was just 1 on 1, as players are playing insta-ctf on public servers 1 on 1 anyways.

- There isn't any ranking needed for connecting to servers and there probably never will be, as it needs some sort of account-system again, which is implemented into the master server.
As stats generally won't be saved at all, having ranked servers wouldn't make sense at all. Players could also just join a certain server and if they think the average skill on the server is too high (or too low), they can connect to another server.

- Having bases as material isn't making much sense as this requirers mappers to really create a base, instead of a model which is currently being used.
It wouldn't be more effective anyways, as only the area of which the base could be captured can be changed in that solution. But don't forget the "gameclip" material is existing to decrease the radius the area which you can regenerate ammo and/or health and/or armour. So such material isn't needed after all.

I should start a research of ideas which probably wouldn't be added in the next release, neither in the release after the next release.

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#190: Re: ..

by Zorg on 11/19/2011 14:33, refers to #189

"It's not logical at all to have the server browser directly into the main menu, as it's for playing in multiplayer, so should be at that point."

It's not logical, but that's not the point. When you start Sauer, 99% of the time you want to join a server, 1% of the time you want to do anything else. So the best thing actually would be to open the serverlist immediatelly by default with a small button on top for the "Main Menu".

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#191: Re: ..

by Razgriz on 11/19/2011 16:26, refers to #190

bind tab [if (< (getmode) 99) showscores [showgui servers]]

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#192: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 11/19/2011 20:48, refers to #190

"It's not logical, but that's not the point. When you start Sauer, 99% of the time you want to join a server, 1% of the time you want to do anything else."

Very untrue, as I'm pretty sure I start up 1 of my project much more times then when I'm playing multiplayer.
I'm also sure there are others who also do exactly the same thing as I do, not joining a server immediately.
As Razgriz showed us, you can do such thing by your own, instead of asking if it will be included in the next release.

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#193: Re: ..

by Zorg on 11/20/2011 18:10, refers to #192

I'm not asking for a way to do this (and I doubt Razgriz's solution does what I'm looking for, as it is bound to "tab", whereas I want something completely different). What I want is to have this included in the release of the game, as for 99% of the players it would be much more convenient if there was the serverlist at startup.

The remaining 1% are people like you, suicizer, or Razgriz or other coders and mappers who can easily make themselves their own menu. I'm talking about the 99% who have never heard of quadropolis or cubescript.

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#194: Re: ..

by Bosurgi725 on 11/20/2011 19:38, refers to #193

How about realizing it is like it is for a reason. It is a multiplayer option, therefore it is in that menu. Makes much more sense to leave it as is.

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#195: Re: ..

by Papriko on 11/20/2011 20:02, refers to #193

Additionally it is so (as mentioned before) so simple to make. Even as not-coder or hardly-coder you can do it. Look up the menus.cfg, search for the multiplayer window, copy the serverbrowser line, search the main menu and paste.

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#196: ..

by Honzik1 on 11/20/2011 21:55

If 90% people likes something, and 10% anything else, then why coders cannot make it?...even if they are part of that 10% people...

Make the polls on Sauer site and players will have the game as most of us want. The polls will show what players want in the game.

Yes, something you can do by yourself in menus.cfg, BUT if most people want add something, why not realize it officialy?

In my opinion...if it would be my game, I would ask people by polls or something else. Then I would make game as people want. Then I would ask them again, if everything is as they wanted.

Coders could listen players more in my opinion, but I dont care what do you think about this, because it is your game and your game popularity.

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#197: Re: ..

by Sub-Zero on 11/20/2011 22:13, refers to #196

Actually, the way I look at it, is you are the 1% who jumps to mp before exploring the game, most people check the game out first.

also, the multiplayer tab is already there, its not out of the way, you click the button "multiplayer" there is no need for a quick jump into multiplayer.

also, its best that people explore the game before jumping to mp, we already have enough noobs in mp as is.

honzik1, you are really wearing my calm thin. i cannot spell this out for you any more than coming down to your house and spelling it out for you one letter at a time.

its pointless to have this done, if you want it this way, just mod your menus.cfg and submit it to quad. its good the way it is.

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#198: ..

by Honzik1 on 11/20/2011 22:55

I have talked about improvements at all. Not only just small menu edit. I am not for cancenling main menu, I would just click and connect, its all.

I dont want click, click => Server is Full => click, click again, because server-list disapeared...

It could be good to have some public thread category just for improvements and each post/idea can be voted by everyone.

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#199: Re: ..

by Sub-Zero on 11/20/2011 23:09, refers to #198

i need to look up some mods my friend was doing, he made something called the xaoc, or xoac, or whatever, its a server mod... i'll see if i can find it.

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