The next update

by legodt on 05/06/2011 01:24, 333 messages, last message: 10/18/2012 04:52, 145268 views, last view: 12/09/2021 06:26

What are the sort of things that the playerbase can expect from the next Sauerbraten update? Gamemodes, user interfaces, or graphical updates?

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#176: ..

by Honzik1 on 11/17/2011 14:11

I had also some more ideas, so I will show:

- Killer fragged Enemy(blue name for teammate and red for enemy)
- Maps sorted in categories by A-Z
- Manual server-list updater (often I click on bad server when server suddenly change position in list)=> Servers will show all servers at once, not 1 by 1 in updating progress
- ON/OFF autospawn fuction for team-modes
- Team killer of flagholder can pick flag (I think 90% kills own player are inadvertently) and if someone do problem with teamkilling, then its up to admins how they limit teamkilling (5x per game for example)..same when I drop flag and my teammate suddenly die, so I want pick it back
- As I already said, change nick can be possible only if player is ofline, for exceptions like Honzik1-away could be done with some checkbox in menu or auto-inactive function which change nick to away or something
- Divide nick and clantag, then clantag will be by different color => 2 text fields to specify nick and clantag
- When I am near to die, I hear heart tick (like in Sauer Enhanced)
- When I reconnect, why I cannot see same accuracy as before? (only frags are same)
- If enybody noticed, Tartech with 2-way teleport destroy all gameplay of that good map
- More fuctions for demo: slider to control speed, slider to change time, etc
- team-insta, team-ffa, team-eff: When player left the team for disconection, team score should hold the result, when someone switch team, the player should start from 0.
- Background of game-menu would be more actractive in way as Windows 7, FadeIn, FadeOut for some pictures from the game.
- Radius capture territory could be much bigger, in my opinion, game will be more balanced, because you capture districts of map instead dots (bases) on the map
- I am not sure how weapon damage works, but is there linear damage for everybody? If I shot rocket between 2 players, both are damaged for example by -90 health?
- More insta kill was avaible in Cube1, why not in Cube2? Killing will not be so big stereotype => more fun
- Just idea: What about a bit smaller damage by rocket-jump and granade-jump? For 100 health possible 5 jumps for example. It could be new element for gameplay
- saw: Who use it? not much players...damage could be => DEATH
- As I said: Game accounts could be way for stats, friendlist etc. If there is problem, it could be possible play without account just with Unnamed, with different nick only with account.
- Reducing spawnkilling: I think it is problem of this game, many spawn killers. Good player can be everyone who can predict enemy spawn place. Can you make random spawn for an area of map? (for iCTF for example...big area near the flag)
- When server is full (old data in server list), then I cannot connect and server-broswer disappear.....Server broswer should not disappear when I successfully havent choosed any server yet OR there could be waiting function with placings for more waiting players

What do you think now?

PS: These are just ideas, if you dont like it, just say NO and reasson. I dont expect answers with words like "anal"

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#177: ..

by Honzik1 on 11/17/2011 14:21

"More insta kill was avaible in Cube1, why not in Cube2? Killing will not be so big stereotype => more fun" ..I meant multikill

1 more:
- commands could: /i /e /f /c /rc /ictf /ectf /ctf with Autocomplete while I am typing map and symbols are already unique:

For example I type: /i co ...nothing happens because there are 2 maps starting with "co" complex and corruption. BUT when I type /i com => autocomplete to /i complex. Also there must be possible some solution with possibility include of new maps.

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#178: Re: ..

by Razgriz on 11/17/2011 16:07, refers to #177

you could alias those yourself to shorten the mode commands, but be wary that individual characters are used in scripting a lot (for loops mainly) and will likely overwrite your commands.

as for your autocomplete "issue", press tab more times, you will scroll through the 2 maps matching your search criteria.

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#179: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 11/17/2011 16:42, refers to #177

- A bigger grenade radius wouldn't be bad, but would create a lot of spam in modes like efficiency or tactics, which isn't a very great situation.
- Adding an account-system is a pretty tough task to do so, as it takes a lot of time and you can't build it from scratch, as it still needs to be compatible with Cube Engine 2 (so probably never will happen).
- Players which have the quad currently get an extra mesh added to the playermodel (as the horns for mr.fixit). This should be enough to spot the player which has the quad.
- Changing the score-system is also a pretty tough task, but will be way more rewarding than some kind of account-system (as an account-system can use the score system). I agree it would be great if score isn't just counted in frags, but in points (as it already is being calculated, but just not in the score-list).
Adding such points like your subscribing is a very tough task as Cube Engine 2 isn't recognizing any of that (yet).
Automaticly waiting 10 seconds won't work at all, as every player still has to wait 10 seconds after they loaded the map (so everyone still starts at a different time).
It's a way better idea to let all players press a key like "F3" to show up they are ready to play the next match. If like half of the players pressed so, the match starts in 5 seconds, on this way, everyone starts 5 seconds after the last person pressed "F3", which the delay should only be between 5 to 200 milliseconds (probably 30 milliseconds, as there will always be some lag).
- What's the sense of delaying spectators for 10 seconds?
- As perviously said before, SVN isn't there just for nothing. It's actually an automatic map/model/skybox/texture and source-code updater.
- Nick-change only when unconnected isn't necassery, as admins always can check out the IP address of players. Maybe a command like "/getip cn" would be usefull for people who have auth-key tough.
- An "ignore" command is already included (pretty interresting as I have asked for it on IRC like 2 years ago).
- Server list as itemn in menu? What do you mean mate?
- Avatars are definetly a no-go as it requires to download stuff from other clients, other than an .ogz file. What's the point of having an avatar when shooting people anyways? People play Sauerbraten to kill or to create custom maps, not to check out how great your avatar looks.
- I tought some servers already has coloured team-frags and normal frags.
- Sorting maps from A-Z would be very nice, as it's just a mesh for newcomers to fine the right map at the moment.
- Setting off auto-updated for serverbrowser list is already included in the SVN version as I'm aware of (I don't know the command tough).
- Setting friendly-fire off friendly-fire is also included in the SVN, as I'm aware of.
- A clantag text field wouldn't be a bad idea, but I doubt it will be included as it's not like Sauerbraten has an enormour ammount of clans (at least 20 which are still and always active).
- Tartech is a pretty balanced map, even it often ends up in just spamming the teleports with nades and rockets. It's probably intended like that.
- More functions for the demoslider? I'm pretty sure you could also give it a try to add such thing, as the command "/gamespeed" could be adjusted just like that.
- Decreasing the damage caused by your own grenade or rocket isn't a bad idea, but shouldn't be a must. It's just fine like it is now.
- It's up the the persons who create a map if the players get spawned between a large area, or a small one. It's just a matter of how much playerstarts have been added. So I suggest any other mapper, be sure to add enough playerstarts before releasing it.
- Not disappearing the serverbrowser would be pretty nice, but could also fuck up. How? when you click on a map which takes only a split second to load and there is space for just 1 more player at that moment. That would create you appear just in the middle of a match while you still are browsing servers.
- It would be a pretty cool idea being able to shoot multiple opponents as they are just behind each other, like in Quake 3 (and even Quake 2).

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#180: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 11/17/2011 16:50, refers to #177

I recommend you order your ideas next time, as It's pretty clutterish right now (like as:
- server-based
- gameplay-based
- gui-based
- etc

This would end up long lines with text where you jump from the first subject to another in a a split second.

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#181: How did this turn into a wish list thread?

by baby~rabbit on 11/17/2011 21:20

If you read the initial post for this thread, it said "What are the sort of things that the playerbase can expect from the next Sauerbraten update? Gamemodes, user interfaces, or graphical updates?"

The answer was: read the history.html file in svn.

The end.

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#182: ..

by mI@school on 11/17/2011 23:26

I agree with honzik that spawning is a problem. I think a nice solution would be to temporarily disable spawn points when enemy players are within a certain radius of them. Or at least decrease their chance of spawning right then.

This way you cut down on players spawning right by one another.

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#183: Re: ..

by Quin on 11/18/2011 02:49, refers to #174

> A) I think SCORE system could be way how to make people playing more as team
> B) You could add team-player location to radar, it will also support to play more as team

Red Eclipse has both of these, and neither helped people work together as a team any more or a less. The unfortunate thing is that 90% of the people playing are just there to "shoot stuff, the end".

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#184: Re: ..

by Zorg on 11/18/2011 06:02, refers to #183

So the basic code is already there, it doesn't hurt the 90% and it would be a good feature for parts of the remaining 10%.

Sometimes you get lucky and 4 or 5 players of each team actually try to win the game. These are hte intense matches which have always been keeping me playing Sauerbraten.

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#185: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 11/18/2011 10:29, refers to #183

Well, I'm pretty sure on clanwars, knowing where your teammates are is a very nice opportunity as you need to relay on your teammates even more.
It's true that on a mode like instactf it won't have much effect to show up teammates on the radar, as it's really just "gun'n run".
But I'm pretty sure it would be affect the teamplay on a mode like capture, where the radar is way more necassery as you also need to see which bases are getting captured and by who.
Take for example this situation:
Your opponent is trying to capture 1 of your bases.
Your seeing the happening on the radar.
You try to be as fast as possible to that specific base, to prevent it gets captured by the opponent.
While you arrived at the base, some other teammate already killed the opponent, which makes you left your position for nothing.
In this case, showing where your teammates are won't be bad at all and would provide better teamplay.

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#186: Re: ..

by Quin on 11/18/2011 11:35, refers to #185

I don't disagree, I'm just saying that in most cases it doesn't help people actually participate in objective teamplay. I implemented these things in RE for the very reasons you state, but don't be looking for me to do it in Sauerbraten because I don't have that kind of say on the subject.

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#187: ..

by Honzik1 on 11/18/2011 13:44

"What's the sense of delaying spectators for 10 seconds?" Spectators on mumble say where enemy is, it gives advantage, almost like you have wallhack or something.

"Server list as itemn in menu? What do you mean mate?"
In 99% You click on Multiplayer/Server-broswer, so why there is not Server-broswer directly in the main menu?

"Players which have the quad currently get an extra mesh added to the playermodel " I use ogro, its probably not there :(

- gamespeed: its only function in demo replay. More comfortable would be sliders (time and speed slider)



Teamates on your radar will not support bigger chaos in team-play, its sure! :-) Also you know where your teammate died when he disappeared on the radar.

Here is example how I edited map list for voting:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/265/screenshot52386.jpg/
I dont know why this cannot be by default. (A-Z)

"A bigger grenade radius wouldn't be bad, but would create a lot of spam in modes like efficiency or tactics, which isn't a very great situation."
I dont think so, not much players use this weapon in eff, cuz its not much effective, it needs to be balanced on optimal to protect spamming and also disusing.

Anyway, I think spawn system quite destroy the game. You added random spawning for armors, to make game more balanced (against countdown timers), why you didnt add random spawning?

EXAMPLE: In Face-Capture when I attack, I always run with crosshair on front spawn-place.

Skilled player doesnt need to be so good in aim, he just need to know where are spawn places and then he is checking them during the run through the map.

EXAMPLE2: Look to gameplay 3on3 Capture-Night, there are many symetric spawn places on opposite side. Everyone camp from "balcony" to opposite enemy balcony directly on spawn place.

Also when you play clanwar, the tactic is: When you steal enemy flag, then run and watch only visible spawn places and be ready to shot there.

Now in Sauer, you dont need reload when you shot and you are immediately killed. So after respawn you can immediately shot. You balanced 1on1 by this a bit, because after death you can immeditely spawn while enemy is still realoading. But in team modes enemy have time to reload and wait you on next spawn and only faster finger decide.

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#188: Re: ..

by Drekow on 11/18/2011 13:53, refers to #183

"shoot stuff, the end" is the only way to play on online 9vs9 servers.

A solution could be to have a player limit of 8. But this way matches will be a lot more unbalanced than now.

So you need a gameplay skill measurer to let play of the same level play each other...

As now I think sauerbraten is nice as it is. But, if we wants to see the best fps ever, developers have to choose: online casual play or cw.

All the suggestion proposed by Honzik1 and others on the relative quadropolis node, are good for a cube 3; or a cube 2.5. For what i can understand there is a lot of code modification e related gamplay to justify the switch to a new (but not totally new) game. And choose the direction to follow.

I hope the game will be 95% cw oriented, ingame full stats and clan support, ad using the tacked data to support cheating fight.

Only one about honzik1 area idea for capture. I like capture as it is and putting an area will made a different mode, but it could be a greater mode, were a team have to conquest and control a true area. I hope to see a material "base" and "vbase n" to set the areas...

I read lots of stuff, most of them are good, but no officially critics to them.

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#189: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 11/18/2011 14:48, refers to #187

To Honzik,
- Delaying spectators is already being done on servers like "psl.sauerleague.org", so it's just a matter of using the same version as those servers do if you want some "fair" play on official matches.
-It's not logical at all to have the server browser directly into the main menu, as it's for playing in multiplayer, so should be at that point.
-It's true that ogro isn't showing if he has a quad or not, but that's probably up to GearTrooper to create, as he seems to be the most experienced artist for modeling. Of course it still requires some coding, as the ogro-model could use the quadrings of the old ironsnout (which are still implemented into Sauerbraten somehow).
It's true that knowing where your teammate died could give your calculations of the opponent's position more clear. But don't forget Sauerbraten is such fast-paced game that this won't be that great at all, as the opponent probably is at the half of the map already before you even noticed that your teammate died.
- Grenades do get used often, but just as some "secondary" weapon. This probably will always be like that, even with a bigger radius. Besides, the rate of fire of the grenade launcher is pretty high already, so increasing the blast-radius won't have much effect at all.
- Adding a slider can be done by cubescript, so just go make it.
Besides, gamespeed is NOT only used when replaying a demo, as it's also used for SinglePlayer.
- Just go whine to eihrul about ordering the maps, I'm pretty sure he won't even take a look at this content.
- As your telling so, it's a matter of the map which kills the gameplay. Playerstarts shouldn't be added in areas which are as open as on face-capture, neither on capture-night. They should have been added on a place which do provide cover, to prevent the player gets killed just right after spawning.
About that you can shoot right after you spawn, I doubt you hit the opponent's flagholder in the very first second after you spawned, unless the flagholder is a pretty unskilled player and your just lucky having your crosshair very close to that opponent already.
After all, your just talking about insta-ctf which is only a very small part of the gameplay on Sauerbraten. Don't forget that are way more team-modes then insta-ctf, like teamplay, insta-team, capture, regen-capture, hold, insta-hold, ctf, effic-ctf, protect and insta-protect.
Read my comment a little more precise, as I already stated it's a matter of how much playerstarts are existing in the map and the positions of those playerstarts, which provide spawn-camping or protect for being spawn-camped.

To Dekrow,
- Developers of Sauerbraten doesn't have choose between casual play or cw, as both can be combined.
My opinion on that is, let's go back to the days which Sauerbraten was just 1 on 1, as players are playing insta-ctf on public servers 1 on 1 anyways.

- There isn't any ranking needed for connecting to servers and there probably never will be, as it needs some sort of account-system again, which is implemented into the master server.
As stats generally won't be saved at all, having ranked servers wouldn't make sense at all. Players could also just join a certain server and if they think the average skill on the server is too high (or too low), they can connect to another server.

- Having bases as material isn't making much sense as this requirers mappers to really create a base, instead of a model which is currently being used.
It wouldn't be more effective anyways, as only the area of which the base could be captured can be changed in that solution. But don't forget the "gameclip" material is existing to decrease the radius the area which you can regenerate ammo and/or health and/or armour. So such material isn't needed after all.

I should start a research of ideas which probably wouldn't be added in the next release, neither in the release after the next release.

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#190: Re: ..

by Zorg on 11/19/2011 14:33, refers to #189

"It's not logical at all to have the server browser directly into the main menu, as it's for playing in multiplayer, so should be at that point."

It's not logical, but that's not the point. When you start Sauer, 99% of the time you want to join a server, 1% of the time you want to do anything else. So the best thing actually would be to open the serverlist immediatelly by default with a small button on top for the "Main Menu".

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#191: Re: ..

by Razgriz on 11/19/2011 16:26, refers to #190

bind tab [if (< (getmode) 99) showscores [showgui servers]]

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#192: Re: ..

by suicizer01 on 11/19/2011 20:48, refers to #190

"It's not logical, but that's not the point. When you start Sauer, 99% of the time you want to join a server, 1% of the time you want to do anything else."

Very untrue, as I'm pretty sure I start up 1 of my project much more times then when I'm playing multiplayer.
I'm also sure there are others who also do exactly the same thing as I do, not joining a server immediately.
As Razgriz showed us, you can do such thing by your own, instead of asking if it will be included in the next release.

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#193: Re: ..

by Zorg on 11/20/2011 18:10, refers to #192

I'm not asking for a way to do this (and I doubt Razgriz's solution does what I'm looking for, as it is bound to "tab", whereas I want something completely different). What I want is to have this included in the release of the game, as for 99% of the players it would be much more convenient if there was the serverlist at startup.

The remaining 1% are people like you, suicizer, or Razgriz or other coders and mappers who can easily make themselves their own menu. I'm talking about the 99% who have never heard of quadropolis or cubescript.

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#194: Re: ..

by Bosurgi725 on 11/20/2011 19:38, refers to #193

How about realizing it is like it is for a reason. It is a multiplayer option, therefore it is in that menu. Makes much more sense to leave it as is.

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#195: Re: ..

by Papriko on 11/20/2011 20:02, refers to #193

Additionally it is so (as mentioned before) so simple to make. Even as not-coder or hardly-coder you can do it. Look up the menus.cfg, search for the multiplayer window, copy the serverbrowser line, search the main menu and paste.

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