Syntensity: Razanak

by kripken on 01/09/2010 12:43, 48 messages, last message: 01/19/2010 03:31, 5910 views, last view: 05/22/2024 22:44

We just launched a new game on Syntensity, called Razanak.

Features:
* Co-op gameplay, players vs. the enemies
* Robotic spiders that crawl on the walls
* Doors and keycards, with a semi-nonlinear plot
* 1 huge map
* Boss at the end of the level that is (hopefully) not too easy to kill
* Special areas with unique effects
* New textures, HUD images, cutscenes, etc.

YouTube Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M80DN-5Xgk

Screenshot: http://www.syntensity.com/static/screenshot_226138.jpg (more screenshots here: http://www.syntensity.com/toplevel/screenshots/ )

You can get to Razanak from the Syntensity lobby. (Note that you need a recent build, which you can get here: http://www.syntensity.com/toplevel/download/ - btw, better installers are coming soon).

Like all games on Syntensity, you can mod Razanak - make other versions of the existing map, with small or big changes, or make entirely new maps. (If you want to do some modding and need help, I am on IRC, #sauerbraten on QuakeNet, or #syntensity on FreeNode.)

- kripken

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#1: ..

by WakeField on 01/12/2010 05:54

no mac release still? dude if you want players to join, there needs to be a mac version. half the population of cube 2 games are mac users, maybe more. I'm just about giving up on this game and I'm sick of not being able to play it

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#2: Re: ..

by kripken on 01/12/2010 07:36, refers to #1

@WakeField: You are absolutely right, and I know how important it is - I've been spending a lot of time asking everybody I can think of for help with that. I also switched the build system to CMake because it should make it easier (CMake creates native Xcode project files). And I even offered to pay for it. But so far no luck in finding someone.

If you (or anybody else here) can think of someone that can do it, please let me know. As I said, I'm even willing to pay them (a reasonable amount, it's out of my own pocket, and I'm not a rich guy).

- kripken

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#3: Re: ..

by Quin on 01/12/2010 08:32, refers to #1

I think you're over-stating the "half the cube population are mac users", because there's obviously no developers among them to be seen. The only real time I ever hear from a Mac user myself is when they're bitching there's no release of a particular project for them (which I'm seeing way too much of lately).

Instead of harassing OPEN SOURCE projects run by VOLUNTEERS and EXPECTING them to provide a Mac release or you'll "get sick of it and give up"; how about doing something useful like learning how to compile it yourself? MacOS obviously suffers from a lack of developers, but I never really see any of the complainers do anything about it.

Any excuse you make as to why you can't or won't compile yourself will just reinforce my point too. So please, spare me the melodrama there.

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#4: Re: ..

by tentus_ on 01/12/2010 13:13, refers to #3

I second Quin. As an "artistic type" who taught himself basic programming, I have no sympathy for those unwilling to compile for themselves if they're on an odd-man-out OS.

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#5: Re: ..

by abs1nth on 01/12/2010 22:11, refers to #4

>...why you can't or won't compile yourself...

>...unwilling to compile for themselves...

i had a look at Syntensity wrt Mac porting and can tell you this wouldn't be a simple "(re)compile". this would be multi-day effort for a programmer and impossible for everyone else.

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#6: Re: ..

by Quin on 01/13/2010 03:14, refers to #5

Yeah, I'm aware of that. Both eihrul and I have looked at it Syntensity and came to the same conclusion: the dependancy hell is a nightmare. Makes me remember one of the big reasons I chose the Cube engine in the first place ;)

I just mean in general, I am quite tired of these "where's the Mac release?" posts.

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#7: ..

by kripken on 01/13/2010 07:21

@abs1nth and Quin:

I don't fully understand the difficulty I guess. I'd appreciate some more feedback about that.

Regarding dependencies, there are exactly 2 external dependencies over what Sauer already requires: Python and Boost. Python AFAIK is already installed on OS X, so that shouldn't even be an issue. There is also V8, which is bundled with the code, but V8 should be trivial to compile on OS X with Google's cross-platform build system for it, and then just link with that library.

(Quin, I honestly don't get what you mean about 'dependency hell' - for example, we have had people from various Linux distros build from source without major problems. In fact the Ubuntu, Arch and openSUSE downloads linked to from our download page were all done by volunteers without my help, and I only heard about them after they were complete.)

And, as I mentioned earlier, we currently use CMake to build on Linux and Windows with native project files. CMake can also generate Xcode project files, so that should be a good starting point (and it's the reason I spent a few days moving to CMake).

We have also moved to git from bzr, because OS X people told me that bzr works very poorly there.

What am I missing, that makes this hard? Maybe it's something I can fix?

- kripken

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#8: ..

by Quin on 01/13/2010 07:30

All I mean is with minimal dependencies comes more code *you* control, and less stuff worrying about version matching, etc. It just creates less headaches later on.

Anyway, I think we should stop hijacking this thread with OT talk (because none of what I was talking about was related to syntensity specifically), sorry about that - was my fault.

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#9: ..

by Nixot on 01/13/2010 18:40

I hate people bitching about Mac releases too and I'm glad you have said that Quin as I thought I was a minority. For the last version of Newcube, the only reply was "Is there a Mac version?" Can you understand how pissed orff I felt? Thank you for bringing this subject to light.

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#10: ..

by Nixot on 01/13/2010 18:54

The game was awesome. The graphic quality was superb and truly shows what you can do with Sauerbraten. However, it ran to slow on my 4-year-old computer so I had to stop.

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#11: Re: ..

by kripken on 01/13/2010 19:09, refers to #10

@Nixot:

Yeah, I'm not surprised it runs slowly on older machines - this game (unlike the other games we made in syntensity) was really mainly meant for higher-end systems.

- kripken

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#12: Message censored by administrator

by Megagun_ on 01/13/2010 23:00, refers to #1

#13: Re: ..

by Megagun_ on 01/14/2010 20:13, refers to #1

Hmm. I guess that previous message was a bit too harsh. Let's try that again. :)

Wakefield, would you mind showing me where you got that data from that more than half of the Cube 2 players are using macs? Because if what you claim is true (which I doubt, severely) it might warrant a change of strategy in some of my own projects.

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#14: ..

by abs1nth on 01/15/2010 00:46

i doubt it, look at the official download numbers:

linux 50,053
windows 169,349
mac 67,893

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#15: Mac Users

by LeftClicker on 01/15/2010 02:42

While I hate not being able to use these projects -- I am a Mac user -- what really can I do beyond show desire for a Mac version? Suppose I am an end user, and not a smart end user, one who can barely launch Sauer, who knows close to nothing about programming and technical support. What can I do? Right, I think that talking to the developer will make him think supporting my platform will make it more likely for me to see a Mac release.
As for WakeField: while it is likely that there are more Mac users playing Sauer than other FPSes, There are nowhere NEAR half. I just think Mac users like to say "I'm using a Mac" more than PC users like to say "I'm on a PC" =P
== LeftClicker ==

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#16: Re: ..

by SheeEttin on 01/15/2010 05:13, refers to #13

No, I censored it in an attempt to head off more off-topic posts (which was partially successful).

SPEAKING OF WHICH.
LeftClicker: You could learn how to compile projects, and then do it.
I don't know about using Xcode, but there is a Mac version of Code::Blocks (http://codeblocks.org) which I use in Windows when building Cube 2. (There are both Code::Blocks and Xcode project files in Cube 2, which could probably be adapted reasonably well for Syntensity.)
And then there's cmake, which I have zero experience with (and is actually supported by Syntensity). But it'd probably be easier to get working.

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#17: Re: ..

by abs1nth on 01/15/2010 13:15, refers to #16

learning how to compile using xcode (there really is not much to learn here) or any other environment is of no use until the project has been successfully ported to the mac by a programmer.

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#18: Re: ..

by kripken on 01/15/2010 13:59, refers to #17

@abs1nth:

I would appreciate it if you could explain further what 'porting to the mac' entails here.

All the C++ code should already compile AFAIK. (Maybe with a few lines being changed from #if LINUX to also include OS X - those lines handle different slashes on Linux vs. Windows, so OS X would go the Linux way I presume.) And the majority of new code is already cross-platform, as it is written in Python and JavaScript.

This project is basically sauerbraten, + some new C++ files which should work without problems, + build and link with V8 (which is known to build and work correctly on OS X), + Python (already installed on OS X, I believe), + linking against Boost (which is known to work on OS X, and pretty much everywhere). And it has an Xcode project file (from CMake).

I just don't fully understand the difficulty yet I guess - probably my lack of knowledge about OS X. But perhaps you can explain it further? I think if I do actually understand what the issue is, I might be able to focus better on making progress here.

- kripken

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#19: ..

by abs1nth on 01/15/2010 16:10

yeah i guess it is mainly getting the build system to work, plus a few ifdefs and incompatibilities in the source.

last time i heard generating xcode project files with CMake was pretty useless - it only worked for very simple projects. also if the CMake system works there is no need to generate (suboptimal) xcode files, when you can just build with CMake anyway.

as i explained in an private email getting it just to compile and work would not be that hard, probably an hour for someone with cmake + mac experience, or an day for someone (a programmer) without. the harder part would be generating proper deployable binaries.

for any project i have ported to the mac (nearly 10) i have always ignored the native build system that was already in place and just built an xcode project. however due to the dependencies and the addition of source code in 2 interpreted languages i guess this would be more work that just getting the cmake system to work.

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#20: Re: ..

by kripken on 01/15/2010 18:59, refers to #19

@abs1nth:

Hmm, an hour to a day makes sense for getting it to build. So that part is clear to me I think.

I don't really know anything about deployable binaries on OS X. You mention 2 interpreted languages, but that should be the easy part, I think? There is nothing to do with Python files except copy them over as-is, in plaintext. The Python runtime will already be installed on the target system. For JavaScript, again all that is necessary is to copy them over as-is, + to link the binary with V8 (a standard C++ library). Is doing this sort of thing very hard with Xcode?

- kripken

P.S. I'm not sure, but I thought CMake can only generate 'native' build files (Makefiles on Linux, Xcode on OS X, etc.), that is it can't build by itself?

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