Is banning for friendly fire ethical?

by jfm429 on 12/23/2008 01:54, 16 messages, last message: 12/29/2008 19:11, 1482 views, last view: 05/03/2024 17:38

I've been playing on a CTF server under the name KillerMac for a few days now, and since I'm rather new to FPS games, I wasn't exactly a good shot. A few hours ago, I accidentally shot one of my teammates and the server banned me for who knows how long for having too many friendly kills (I think the limit was 6) even though that was my first friendly kill today. Now, I'm not one to complain, but that seems awful punitive. To ban someone just because they happened to make a few mistakes doesn't seem right.

On one hand, I can see the reason for limits. There are a few (not very many) who may think sabotaging a team would be funny. But on the other hand, those people are few and far between, and when the ban begins to affect legitimate players, then it's gone too far in my opinion.

What are your thoughts? Would a smaller per game limit, maybe 2 or 3 friendly kills per 15-minute game, be better, with a player's ban being reset every game? Is the current system fair? Or are limits simply bad?

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#1: Message censored by administrator

by ZGMF-X20A on 12/23/2008 03:23

#2: My thought

by Zencri on 12/23/2008 03:42

I think that the system is effective, but when someone were to shoot you and they bring your HP down i think it is very annoying because if you kill them the master/server/admin bans or kicks you. so I would rate the system 4/10

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#3: ..

by jfm429 on 12/23/2008 04:31

The biggest problem is in insta-ctf where all hits are instant kill. It's too easy to kill your teammates if it's in the heat of battle or in close quarters.

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#4: Re: ..

by a~baby~rabbit on 12/23/2008 04:51, refers to #3

we can only hope that people learn to aim better!

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#5: ..

by jfm429 on 12/23/2008 05:29

But if they get banned before they can really learn how, then how will they really learn?

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#6: Re: ..

by (noerrorsfound) on 12/23/2008 05:44, refers to #5

They come back and become more cautious when the ban is over, that's how.

I haven't played Sauerbraten in a *long* time (mostly AssaultCube but not much of that, either), so I didn't even know Sauerbraten automatically bans for TKs.

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#7: ..

by JadeMatrix on 12/23/2008 07:06

Random thought: have the game recognize 'sry' and ignore all tk's followed by that message.

Meh. The only real way is the Master system, which we have.

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#8: Re: ..

by (noerrorsfound) on 12/23/2008 09:52, refers to #7

Yeah, because people won't figure that out and abuse it. You could even modify the client to send "sry" after every teamkill.

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#9: ..

by }TC{viruz on 12/23/2008 10:41

Yes, banning for FriendlyFire is ethical.

Imagine 2 teamkillers that play "shot the blue ones" and destroy gameplay for everyone...

also, teamkilling is much more common in regen than in ictf

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#10: ..

by TomCat39 on 12/23/2008 19:25

If it's the autoban for team killing, then you must have team killed quite a few times to get the temporary ban. You probably didn't notice the teamkill messages while in the heat of battle.

I think it's very ethical being their are more greifers out there than you think. It tends to happen at least once every 5 maps or so on Regen CTF.

It makes it so you have to consider your teammates when enemies are around. You choose your shots more carefully. I personally like the system. It makes one more cautious, and actually ID before shooting.

I hate people who shoot first, look second.

The system is very good imho.

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#11: ..

by JadeMatrix on 12/24/2008 07:06, refers to #10

@ (noerrorsfound)
yeah, I know... it was just a random thought

@ TomCat39
Sauer is a very fast-paced DM-type game, not a tactical shooter. It should be designed so you shoot first, look second. Masters FTW.

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#12: ..

by jfm429 on 12/24/2008 07:36

I partially agree, but it was 6 kills over the course of 3-4 days (with most of those probably being in the first day or so considering it was my first time) and the ban was still in place today. I was playing today on another server and there was a blatant teamkiller (and spammer) who got a 30-minute ban. I guess the biggest issue is how to implement the ban so as many people as possible are happy (note there will always be someone who isn't satisfied) and nobody is permanently banned who shouldn't be.

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#13: ..

by TomCat39 on 12/25/2008 06:24

@jfm29
Doesn't sound like the autoban script I've seen. Sounds more like an admin banning. In your case, probably not kewl. I support the 30 minute autoban script. It only activates for 6 TK's in one map situation. Blatant griefing.

@JadeMatrix
DM is as you describe. I can't agree to the other modes not being tactical shooters. There is plenty of strategy in regen capture or insta CTF. Team work is crucial to win. So having to look first then shoot only makes sense. Shoot first, kill your flag carrier in a tie game just before times up. They return the flag and score, game ends. Now who feels like an ass for causing his team to lose the match? Sounds like you tend to stick to non team modes. Whole different ball of wax there.

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#14: Re: ..

by JadeMatrix on 12/29/2008 06:55, refers to #13

Tactical shooters as in 'realistic' warfare. You don't run 30 mph in real life. Nor do you have guns that feed directly from a single ammo source (ie no reloading). Minor point.

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#15: ..

by Dasaki on 12/29/2008 13:16

You could just make a script where the player TKed can pick a non kick or non ban punishment. like... booting the players HP on the next round to 10, or putting them on fire till they die themselves... or perhaps \'freezing\' them in place till they are killed. It\'s been done before technically, and I find it to be pretty good.

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#16: Re: ..

by (noerrorsfound) on 12/29/2008 19:11, refers to #15

In other games with that (like modded CS servers) it's frequently used to grief. Just shoot a player until they only have a few HP and they will get pissed off and kill you, then you punish them with the mose annoying punishment possible (like freeze or blind).

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