The future of Sauer SP

by eihrul on 12/13/2008 02:42, 24 messages, last message: 12/28/2008 00:33, 10428 views, last view: 04/28/2024 04:20, closed on 01/03/2009 02:49

I have decided for the next release that my goal is to polish up Sauer as a MP game - making the game seem like some sort of vaguely coherently designed thing, rather than a tech demo collection of random features. So to this end, I have tentatively considered dropping Sauer's SP system. This seems to have caused some heated opinions, so I will solicit feedback about the matter here.

My feelings were this: I am basically the only one doing any significant programming on Sauer anymore, and the SP system was too much a mess for it to meet the demands of a real SP system that most mappers and players wanted. The number of SP mappers and players always seemed rather small, and the overall reaction of outside players to the SP system was always negative.

It was a collection of old Quake 2 models that were supposed to have been replaced 6 years ago (but no one cared to replace), that just ran around in random directions and occasionally maybe decided to randomly shoot at you - when they weren't getting stuck behind boxes.

I myself am too busy to expend any significant effort in working on this part of Sauer anymore, since just keeping the engine in working order is more than a fulltime job, especially for someone who is doing it on an unpaid hobby basis.

Now, Quin has been doing a lot of work towards addressing most of these issues in BloodFrontier, with the foundations of rather intelligent AI and coop-SP, and a more configurable look and feel for individual maps in general. There is a much more robust SP system sure to come in BloodFrontier in the future.

So, overall, I am content to let BloodFrontier develop as the primary SP platform for Cube 2, since I feel that when it is finished it will blow away the vestigial SP system in Sauer.

Now, please, let's not let this thread devolve into a list of feature suggestions for SP, or requests for me to implement stuff, because as I quite clearly stated above, I do not have the time myself anymore to implement any suggestions of this nature, and again, am the only real person left doing any major programming on Sauerbraten.

This is your opportunity to dispute or support my decision of de-emphazing Sauer SP. Have at it.

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#21: ..

by Xsaii on 12/17/2008 06:32

Not to throw out 'suggestions', but I just think there are some things that could be implemented that would work nicely for *both* SP and MP besides aesthetics (like the somewhat recent glow option, etc). Not just additions like game modes either. I really hope someone picks up the SP aspect though. It seems to me (and others too apparently) that the best idea is to just drop it. Maybe it will just be easier to come back to it later.

If pack size is a big issue (it really shouldn't be in this day), just make a separate pack without SP.

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#22: ..

by SanHolo on 12/17/2008 09:46

Drop it like it's hooot, drop it like it's hooot. :D :D

+1 for more focus to MP.

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#23: ..

by Khane on 12/20/2008 04:33

Eh, I've got alot to say on the whole subject. But first, I have to thank Eihrul for finally saying that he's going to polish the game and try to not make it look like a tech demo. I think this is what we should have been doing for a long time, and I am very happy with this announcement.

On the subject of SP: If that much work is required to make anything of it, go ahead and cut it. Singleplayer is something should be done well or not at all, so I think that removing it for the sake of polish in other areas is a good decision, and definitely worth what we'll get out of it.

P.S. Finally started listening to some of whine, eh Eihrul? Heh, well, I'm just glad thing'll get cleaned up.

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#24: Eh.

by Nems on 12/28/2008 00:33

Hey Sauerbraten community. First time poster and kind of new to using Sauerbraten.

In terms of dropping SP support, I can understand. However, as a single-player gamer, even with the talk of making Sauerbraten MP focused, I have to ask if that means it'll be strictly online. I don't play online. I have my reasons. Despite the fact that the bots are a bit on the goofy side, I still find them quite challenging, be it in SP or DMSP mode. Would the bots remain as part of this new MP direction of Sauerbraten or would they be eliminated along with SP, as well?

Also, like Captain_Ahab said, there's Blood Frontier (I tried the latest Alpha release, which is awesome) which I can use for my single player fix. However, I did a search for the Intensity Engine and from what I read, there doesn't appear to be any single player elements at all. It looks like it's more geared toward online multiplayer gaming as well. I could be wrong or might have overlooked something, so if someone could correct me, I'd appreciate it.

In the end, if there won't be bot support for the future releases of Sauerbraten, I can always just stick with the current version that's out as well as use Blood Frontier. Again, I understand the reasons for wanting it dropped. Nonetheless, no matter the direction this and other versions of Cube go, they have my support, being a believer in the power of open source and what the average Joe can put out there. (:

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