New Release June 15th! FINALIZE CONTRIBUTIONS!

by eihrul@work on 05/12/2008 00:14, 173 messages, last message: 06/18/2008 03:20, 83372 views, last view: 05/07/2024 21:46, closed on 06/18/2008 03:26

It's getting about that time where the amount of stuff in CVS has reached critical mass, a boat load of good stuff in terms of the engine being prettier, faster, smoother, CTFier, etc.

So I am tentatively setting a release date for June 15. There are still things that need to get done before then, so the release may be later than that, or if everything falls into place earlier, it may be earlier, but not earlier than June 1.

In any event, if you were planning on contributing anything, please get that finalized by at least June 1, to make sure it gets in.

Among things we still need: more CTF maps. They still need to be at least release quality in playability, if not visuals (on which we may be more lenient, but please, no ugly maps either).

Also, I encourage people to hunt for any relevant bugs (by playtesting!) in the CVS stuff that need to be fixed before release. It should be mostly stable (i.e. won't blow up your computer or anything), and mostly in the state it will be at release (minus one or two things still in the works), so feel free to try it out. But do make sure your entire CVS install is up to date as of at least today before you test, so that there are no false alarms.

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#131: Material

by Osbios on 06/15/2008 04:00

Ok perhaps to late for this release. :)

But Noclip+Watter is impossible so far. Would be nice to make a single material from it.

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#132: Re: Material

by demosthenes on 06/15/2008 04:33, refers to #131

Noclip and water? What is the utility of that?

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#133: ..

by Max of S2D [Fr] on 06/15/2008 09:11

Well, it's June the 15th, we're waiting \o/

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#134: I wont be surprised if it wont be released...

by Nick Gaiber on 06/15/2008 09:20

Count 2 days late as things are not perfected to be released today.

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#135: X crash

by grospipeau on 06/15/2008 10:52

Hi,

at the moment, my X server crashes randomly (restart needed !) after some play (on new ctf maps ?).
Ubuntu 8.04, \"intel\" driver, GM950.

Note that game speed is better than in Assassin ed. How can I increase it on complex maps ? The wiki is still up-to-date or I need to change commands in autoexec.cfg ?

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#136: ..

by Osbios on 06/15/2008 11:36

@demosthenes: what do you think is Noclip and Wasser? Its Nolcip and Watter of course.

Think for example about some algae or other small structures you don't want in the players way. Its not possible to noclip them without destroying the watter surrounding them.

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#137: ..

by scasd on 06/15/2008 13:54

He means water (the thing that causes waves). The water is still a big problem. In nearly every map you get stuck somewhere in the water so clip-water material would be nice but noclip-water ? I do not know maybe its possible to those bugs with it too.

Oh and hallo.ogz still crashes every time I try to load it. I posted a crash log weeks ago in the bug-report thread but it has been ignored I think.

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#138: Re: ..

by Wolfseye on 06/15/2008 14:48, refers to #137

Any Info on when the new Sauerbraten will come out ? Looks like not today on 15th.

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#139: ..

by blackdragon on 06/15/2008 15:19

Aardappel was forgotten that in the netherlands it is father day.

blackdragon

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#140: Re: ..

by marcpullen2 on 06/15/2008 16:18, refers to #137

I've had a need for that as well, clip and noclip in water. I usually work around it by not doing anything fancy in water areas.

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#141: Clip & water

by tentus_ on 06/15/2008 18:41

Wouldn't clip + water = ice?
I'd actually really appreciate an "ice" material, particularly if it affected traction (though that's hardly be a necessity, having ice as just a graphical asset would be nice). Outset some flat faces very slightly from the cube (just like glass is slightly inset) and give them a semitransparent ice texture.

If making a texture would encourage this I'll do it in a heartbeat.

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#142: ..

by Osbios on 06/15/2008 19:25

clip + water <> ice

you still want the visual of water but clipped.

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#143: Re: ..

by tentus_ on 06/15/2008 19:52, refers to #142

Solid water is anything but ice? (Unless I'm misinterpreting your use of <>, I'm not a math person).

I think one of use is turned around. Clip means solid, shown as red. Noclip means always empty, shown as green.

If I want clipped (aka solid) water, I'm essentially talking about ice. If I want liquid water that someone can't run through, all I have to do is make some very tiny bits of geometry hidden in or as weeds, or a grill of some kind, or just a couple of rocks in the way.

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#144: Re: ..

by fhdskjconrhfjdks on 06/15/2008 19:59, refers to #143

Or clip every other layer of water going big-small-big-small for gridsize.

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#145: logic?

by Osbios on 06/15/2008 22:00

@tentus_: What is clipped air? With that logic it would be a Wall.

You often can use clip and noclip to prevent that the player get caught in geometry. It would be nice to do this in water, too.

For example if you create a small fish with map geometry you don't want it to bock the player. Its just decoration!

Have a look at this:
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/4388/noclipjh2.jpg

I hope you understand my demand now.

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#146: Re: logic?

by tentus_ on 06/15/2008 23:07, refers to #145

Part of the big appeal of Sauerbraten is that the geometry has incredibly accurate hit detection. If you look at the source, the actual math that runs it is elegant and efficient in a way that is unparalleled by most engines.

Whenever I make a map, I do my damnedest to never have an area clipped or unclipped without a visible reason. Nothing takes me out of the zone faster than running into an invisible wall, or sticking my arm through a stone wall. The screenshot you linked to shows a pretty typical usage of noclip, which is fine, but does that tunnel really need it? Are you going to get stuck in that slight concavity? No, Sauer's collision is good enough to avoid it.

I understand what you're asking for, and why, but I think don't think that it's a problem that a clever mapper wouldn't be able to circumvent, probably resulting in a better map in the end. Make the fish a mapmodel, which opens up the possibility of animation. Let the player slow down because they're too lazy to run around the pipes on the wall. See what I'm getting at? I think people are being overenthusiastic about their clipping, and the strength of the engine is being undermined because of it.

I shouldn't be allowed to participate in discussions like this, I end up getting to verbose.

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#147: Re: ..

by demosthenes on 06/15/2008 23:30, refers to #136

Wait, you would create decorative things which would require passthrough underwater, but not use mapmodels?

If you were using geometry as geometry instead of decoration, you wouldn't need noclip + water.

ClipWater makes more sense to me, a la an artificial floor for a "floating" map, but a "kill" surface makes more sense.

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#148: ..

by Osbios on 06/16/2008 02:02

@tentus_:

Yes, why the hell do we need clip and noclip anyway?

If you are using a map model for a fish I'm fine with that. If you tell me to use only map models for such things I'm absolutely not fine with that!

In my tunnel you really easy get pushed up (and stopped) because of the geometry. (And don't tell me my geometry is to lazy)

Apart from the tunnel you stuck on specific constellations of geometry where you wouldn't expect it.

This would end up in your "Nothing takes me out of the zone faster than running into an invisible wall".
Because the "incredibly accurate hit detection" seems only to work on your Computer. :/

Sauerbraten is a fast game so you have to use noclip for certain parts of complex maps to make it walkable.
Of course you can take sure that the path is wide and open but I wont restrict myself on this.

And even under water where you haven't the same speed you still get annoy if you stuck in geometry.

I dislike the absolute points you make about thinks you don't even know. (Like my tunnel)

@demosthenes:
There is a reason why you can change the texture of geometry... its because you see it.

How many models did you create for sauerbraten?

It is the tempo and the coherence of map geometry that makes it so much more suitable for many decorations.
How many mappers know how to use Blender or other 3d software to make usable models?

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#149: ..

by {Qs}Homicidal on 06/16/2008 02:39

as for ice I have seen it done performing tricks on cubes turning them inside out and making them into the grid so when to walk on you slide not sure on the exact process tho

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#150: Re: ..

by tentus_ on 06/16/2008 05:32, refers to #148

Uhm, before you get too mad and start telling me more about what I don't know, check the "mapmodels" gui in the game, in the editing section. Look at about page 3, 4, 5. Whose name keeps cropping up on those pages? They're mostly crap models, because they were made for Cube Legends back when 200 polies was a lot, but I think they do prove that I know a little something.

Have you read physics.cpp? I don't pretend to understand all of it, but what I do understand is brilliantly efficient, and my ingame experience has been that it's very accurate. *chuckle* It even says so itself in the comments, "Collision detection is simplistic but very robust (uses discrete steps at fixed fps)."

Just out of curiousity, in your proposed noclip water, would the velocity still be dampened or would it return to normal?

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