Enemy Territory + Cube 2 = wOOt?

by ezombie on 01/19/2008 16:25, 258 messages, last message: 04/03/2008 21:39, 174108 views, last view: 05/19/2024 00:55

I made an actual thread for this, since we are still yacking about it. To bring the others up to speed:

"Some of us weirdos have been kicking around the thought of making a community edition of Enemy Territory (the FIRST one). I suggested the Cube 2 engine might be a good base...

This would be a straight port of ETPro gameplay to a standalone open source game, using new 'HD' assets. Nothing too fancy, just better graphics and netcode are what we would be looking for."

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#219: ET:CE Links

by ezombie on 02/12/2008 23:56

FYI, just a repost of the project site:

http://etce.usef-et.org

This has all the basic info and links.

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#220: ..

by makkE on 02/13/2008 01:26

I like the TCE sights - I just wish the game was faster - an arcade-ish shooter with ironsights - I´d love that.

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#221: ..

by James007 on 02/13/2008 03:10

why would you even use iron sights in a faster-arcade like shooter. that doesnt make sense.
TC:E is pretty fast paced, you walk out of your spawn area and *BLAM* your dead(well if you suck that is).

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#222: ..

by ezombie on 02/13/2008 03:21

ET is kinda right down the middle. It is arcade & duck and cover - at the same time.

And TC:E fast? Campfest maybe, but I would never call the mod fast...

Try a busy ET Jaymod server someday. There is no walking, only running-hiding-dying. :D

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#223: Re: ..

by SanHolo on 02/13/2008 10:27, refers to #199

Looks good. Maybe make the bars thicker so you can see them more easily.

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#224: ..

by makkE on 02/13/2008 13:20

TCE is fun and fast if everyone on the server plays it with fun in mind. Unfortunately that is really seldom the case. Campfest/spawnrape otherwise.

I just love to aim down sights, I like the immersion it offers - vastly superior over a crosshair on the screen. Unfortunately every game using them is rather slow and more a simulation than a game.

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#225: Re: ..

by SheeEttin on 02/13/2008 15:59, refers to #217

In America's Army, crouching/going prone increases your accuracy and reduces recoil, as does using your ironsights. The best possible position is prone with sights and bipod (though this isn't the best for quick action).
You could implement something similar--and you sound like you're going to--but I'm not familiar with the pacing of ET. (To be honest, I've never played it.)

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#226: Re: ..

by MovingTarget on 02/13/2008 16:25, refers to #225

I think it's basically the same (crouch/prone increases accuracy), but none of the sniper rifles have bipods (only the mobile MG42 does, and that's a machine gun!)

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#227: Re: ..

by JadeMatrix on 02/13/2008 19:38, refers to #225

Which reminds me... please include a prone option. That\'s something that really annoys me about UrT: you have to be fairly open to attack in order to snipe.

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#228: ..

by ezombie on 02/13/2008 19:42

For those not familiar, ET *is* similar to Q3A's pace, pretty far removed from games like AA or BF. It it a true sibling of RTCW, which it is based on.

I'm very much on the fence about this whole thing, actually. I am just going to provide it for use once we start playtesting the game.

I also love sighting, but I do love pinging someone in the noggin while jumping off of a crate *over* the person's head. I am hoping for the best of both worlds if at all possible...

We shall let the players decide in the end.

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#229: ..

by makkE on 02/13/2008 23:01

Jade: Sniping in UrT is only for the fast.

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#230: ..

by James007 on 02/18/2008 18:45

Just wondering, are the models in this version of ET being made going to be high quality or more like the ones already in sauer(meaning polycount, detail, etc)? I guess the more detail and polygons in the models means more lag(supposedly) for the people with slower computers....

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#231: Fried gold

by Dr_Evil288 on 02/18/2008 20:02

Even though the time I have been able to go on Sauerbraten has been restricted, (damn GCSEs!), I have never really been in a situation where the cheating has ever become out of control. The system which is implemented in Sauer is pretty adequate anyway. Ultimately, just how secure can you really make a open-source game?

Trying to implement an anti-cheat system is like stopping the wind-its pretty much impossible. However, we can limit its effects by sheltering ourselves from it by blocking it. Could the master-server double up as a blacklist ban server; if a person is seen cheating everyone gets a 'voteblacklist' command that would bar them from future internet Sauer games by denying them a master-server connection.

How's that for a slice of fried gold?

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#232: Re: models

by ezombie on 02/18/2008 20:09, refers to #230

Yeah, it is looking like ET:CE might have slightly higher min spec then Sauer. Not that much though. The models are low poly but using baked normals for that highpoly look.

The textures are higher resolution on average though. Most of the textures are 512x512, with some reaching 1024x1024. This will require a vid card with 64MB or higher of ram. But there is always the built in texture downsize and compression for peeps to use.

One thing that ET tends to use is quite a bit of dynamic lights & particles. We will see how this pans out, performance wise.

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#233: Re: Fried gold

by ezombie on 02/18/2008 20:26, refers to #231

I agree with you. Cheaters are best ignored by the general population, since they THRIVE on attention and fame.

Since this is a registered game (free though) - each player will have a GUID that is stored centrally and sent to the server when you join. Blacklisting is indeed possible.

Also, we are using a VM to replace almost all of the code in the fpsgame source directory. The compiled & compressed bytecode will be streamed from the server when connecting.

This allows for server-specific client customizations without running modded game. It also makes cheating a bit harder and alot less effective. One would have to change the code to dump the bytecode to disk (easy), decompile it (harder), then re engineer it (with no variable names or comments - ouch) and recompile it and disable the bytcode streamer and replace it with their custom bytecode.

Now of course one could make a *special* client that grabs a pre-hacked bytecode from a private repo.

But by making it super easy for admins to customize their own client version, this will only work for a handful of (or just one) servers. But only until the admin changes something, then it would likely stop working so well (it would be painfully obvious they are not using an official client for that server - or it would break completely). Individual server admins are also free to add custom *secret handshakes* and other creative stuff into their client bytecode.

The net effect is that by encouraging admin hacking, we discourage player hacking. Why go through ALL that work, just to play with an advantage for a couple days on only one server, then get banned? Get enough bans and your master account gets locked (and stats get wiped). Then you have to make a new one and start all over again. Weeee...

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#234: ..

by Julius on 02/18/2008 21:13

Well IMHO you are contradicting your self a bit :p

If the cheaters thrive on attention, than the actual cheat programmers do so even more (plus the challenge to hack the system), thus you will most likely get more hackers interesting in hacking your system (especially since it is a relativly unique concept for games AFAIK).

Thus I think Sauerbraten does it right by not bothering at all.

But only time will tell :p

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#235: Re: cheaters

by ezombie on 02/18/2008 22:24

Eh?

Recent version of Sauer added some major netcode changes to help combat blatant cheating. Not sure if that qualifies as *not bothering at all*...

What I said was: Cheaters are best ignored by the -> general population <-

Actually, what I'm hoping is that the honest-to-goodness hackers will hack away at it with glee. And then setup a server, so *everyone* can see their brilliance and revel at the depths of their skill.

Notice the ending part: by encouraging *admin* hacking, we discourage *player* hacking. This is both a psychological and a practical effect. The personal rewards of player hackers are minimized, and those of admin hackers are maximized.

Any decent hacker worth his salt would want to hack up one sweet custom game with aimbots, triple jumps, rocketpacks - what have you. Wait, that is what they are doing right now - LOL. Well, by doing it as a server admin, they can gain a loyal worshiping player base in the process.

Also, the biggest incentive for hackers seems to be the *official dont-touch-or-else build* idea. I'm just attempting to sidestep that whole issue by giving each admin the complete and utter power to control and customize the game as they see fit.

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#236: Insight into the process

by ezombie on 02/18/2008 22:32

FYI, I just finished a lengthy post about the current ET:CE roadmap and the part that the VM plays in all of this:

http://etce.usef-et.org/node/7

Warning, long and dry prose included - only the technically curious need attend.

P.S. Didn't Aardappel work on the FarCry game? This used a Lua VM for virtually all of it's game logic as well... the only thing we are doing different is the *stream from server* bit.

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#237: normalmaps

by hdsfkjshconordhfjks on 02/18/2008 23:08

We have normal maps for models, so poly count isn't that big of an issue.

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#238: ..

by makkE on 02/19/2008 00:03

"Ultimately, just how secure can you really make a open-source game?"

Just don´t publish the source. Perfectly fine with Sauerbratens license...

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