How Not to Start a Mod

by eihrul on 10/06/2007 17:12, 51 messages, last message: 07/25/2008 18:13, 36708 views, last view: 04/16/2024 19:55

Okay, since this is coming up a lot lately, here is how to fail spectacularly with any particular mod'ing idea:

Premises:
1) propose starry-eyed idea
2) ask for significant help to start the project

Conclusion:
3) always fail

The reality is of any volunteer project is: if the people you want to help are significantly more skilled than you, or just significantly skilled, they will be more likely to work on their own projects than bother at all helping you.

Why is this? IDEAS ARE CHEAP. EVERYONE HAS COOL IDEAS. But very few people have the skill to follow through with them. When they do, they're usually not very altruistic about using them for the good of someone else.

Leadership skills matter not for starting something. People won't take marching orders from someone they perceive as less skilled. Leadership only matters in the end game, when you have a lot of stuff to manage.

So what does this mean for someone wishing to start a mod or just volunteer project in general (one might say any non-commercial project, particularly open source ones)? It means: YOU MUST BE WILLING TO DO THE MAJORITY OF THE WORK BY YOURSELF.

And when the critical mass of your project makes coming across it by accident via word-of-mouth unavoidable, then you'll start to get... a few, but very limited number of somewhat skilled people proposing to help. Very rarely, you might even get one or two skilled people.

So the breakdown (keeping in mind most statistics are made up on the spot):

Of your users, a very small amount will express interest in helping.
Of those, a smaller amount will actually TRY to help you.
Of those, a much smaller amount will be CAPABLE of doing what they're trying.
Of those, a much smaller amount will be capable of doing what they're trying to do WELL.

Scale all these on something of a low exponential curve. The bigger and more prestigious your project is the more the ratios will grow.

Long story short: unless it is the Linux kernel, any given volunteer project will pretty much only be successful if it's the work of but one, or at most a handful of people.

   Board Index   

#1: ..

by Acord on 10/06/2007 17:59

In other words, you're gonna have to prove yourself before you start getting help. So start with a small milestone.

reply to this message

#2: Re: ..

by SheeEttin on 10/06/2007 18:11, refers to #1

I'd start with learning C++.

reply to this message

#3: ..

by a_baby_rabbit on 10/06/2007 18:52

Asking for help "to start" is the hard way, asking for help after you've started has more chance as then you have something to show and inspire people with... Its far more interesting to see screenshots rather than read paragraphs of plot outline or imaginative feature lists imho.

reply to this message

#4: ..

by Julius on 10/06/2007 19:28

Damn.. I came here to to read about useful tips regarding actually making a Sauerbraten mod, and all there is is some rant stating the obvious :p

Just kidding... I agree 100%

Oh btw what is the actual reason why you decided to write this down? Got some email spam?

reply to this message

#5: Re: ..

by Drakas on 10/06/2007 19:41, refers to #4

Don't you think that it gets quite annoying to see these pointless requests for help... or the announcements of one's great mod... ?

reply to this message

#6: Re: ..

by MovingTarget on 10/06/2007 23:33, refers to #5

Yes as a matter of fact I find it very irritating. Of course, 99% of the time, the mod disappears into the blue, and nothing else happens. AssaultCube is a prime example of the right way to start a mod. No cries for help, no pointless bragging statements.

</obvious>

reply to this message

#7: Modding.

by fhsdkjfhdskconorhfjdhfjks on 10/08/2007 04:55

Yes, I started with a mod, and I was doing most of the work, and I couldn't do it all, so it died.

reply to this message

#8: yes

by Aardappel_ on 10/08/2007 16:58

this should probably go into the wiki... not that it will curb the amount of people wanting to start grand mods on the basis of nothing... the whole premise behind these people is that they ignore reality and what others do/write on the interwebs.

So yes, if I can be even clearer:

*any skill your mod requires you need to be able to do yourself*, this includes C++ for gameplay changes, modelling and exporting for art, etc.
Similarly, this means that the less skills your project requires (e.g. a map or map-pack), the more likely you can finish.

*any project you do, plan to do it entirely by yourself*. Any people that will want to help you at some stage will be a bonus, but don't rely on it

*present your project only after some significant work has already been done*, e.g. at the very least some levels. People may see your skill and determination, which makes them 10x more likely to participate. See e.g. what Acord did for a good way to start a mod.

*if you want to work on a mod, unless you are super skilled, its better to team up with more skilled people and follow their lead than start your own*. Yes, its attractive to do your own ideas, but there are 1000x more ideas than means to execute them, so something has got to give. Having made a contribution to a finished, polished project of someone else, is worth so much more than a failed own project.

and this one goes not just for mods, but for anything:

*do not release screenshots etc until they are at least up to par with other good maps*. Do this test: Compare a screenshot of your map with the ones for the maps on the main sauer page. If your screenshot is the ugliest, *throw the map away and start again*. Why would anyone have interest in a mod that goes backwards in terms of quality?

(if someone could wikifi stuff in this thread, thanks :)

reply to this message

#9: Re: yes

by Aardappel_ on 10/08/2007 17:09, refers to #8

oh, and, if anyone needs convincing that its hard to get other people to do work for you voluntarily, consider the main cube/sauer project:

It is about 6 years old by now. It's been quite succesful by anyone's standards as a game/engine project (millions of downloads etc).. yet even this project I can count the number of contributing artists (or programmers for that matter) on one hand. (Level design has always been easier because this project was designed as the ultimate LD tool).

So if such a huge project gets so few contributors, even that many years in, why should your project get any right at the start?

Or consider the mods that have been attempted for sauer.. there has been only one really succesfull one sofar, AssaultCube, and that worked out because a couple very skilled people got together, managed to keep the same vision, and more importantly, managed to keep determined to finish it, which wasn't easy from what I saw.

When you think you have something 80% finished, it's probably actually 20% finished. Finishing something, polishing it, takes a LOT of determination, and usually isn't fun. it is WORK.

reply to this message

#10: ..

by SheeEttin on 10/08/2007 18:49

Wikified by combining all three posts. I rather like it, though the transition from the prose into Aard's points is... nonexistent.

http://cube.wikispaces.com/How+not+to+start+a+mod

reply to this message

#11: Re: ..

by MovingTarget on 10/08/2007 19:51, refers to #10

Nice! I like the way you set it up. The transition's not that bad, anyway.

reply to this message

#12: Best way to start a project

by SanHolo on 10/08/2007 21:00

Best way is showing off an impressive beta-5 of a project and then ask people to come and help. ;-)

reply to this message

#13: ..

by Julius on 10/08/2007 22:32

Just wait for my beta-5 ! (current status alpha 0.01 :p).

reply to this message

#14: Re: ..

by SanHolo on 10/09/2007 00:09, refers to #13

Oh great, I wanna join!!

=D =D ;-D

reply to this message

#15: ..

by Gilt on 10/09/2007 03:16

Mappers always seem to be able to complete projects that rely on textures, models, sounds, music, game mechanics; high quality assets that are created by talented individuals other then themselves.

Not really sure how they can manage to organize that, while would-be game designers can't.

Also not really sure why some people gravitate towards applying corporate-style monolithic development practices to homegrown hobby projects.

Anyway, my advice is to keep ones project focused. Understand what is important to your idea and what is not; be absolutely ruthless in cutting out things which are not important.

reply to this message

#16: ..

by Acord on 10/09/2007 03:48

I'm writing a guide. Estimated finish date: Done when it's done. I'll start writing the sections in tandem with my own work.

reply to this message

#17: Re: ..

by SheeEttin on 10/09/2007 21:00, refers to #16

On modding?

reply to this message

#18: Re: yes

by Passa on 10/12/2007 13:37, refers to #8

Post of the century. That is some brilliant advice that I think applies to much more than just Sauerbraten mods.

reply to this message

#19: Re: yes

by Drakas on 10/12/2007 16:18, refers to #18

It would in fact apply to anything :)

reply to this message

#20: ..

by geartrooper^2 on 10/12/2007 18:18

everything except bad ideas.

reply to this message

   Board Index