Weapon Models or objects

by James007 on 09/16/2007 17:07, 28 messages, last message: 09/22/2007 06:49, 6384 views, last view: 05/18/2024 21:17

If any one here doing a Sauerbraten project I could make weapon models and maybe even objects. i cant texture(really bad at that),havnt learned to animate, or code, but maybe my models could be useful? i can make high poly or low poly models, and give you them in a few formats so you can get one of them into a .MD2 format or whatever Sauerbraten uses.

Here's my latest model for an example of what i can do.

Pistol model, 504 polygons- 644 vertices- some uncounted time

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=2.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=1.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=newren5.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=newren4.jpg

504 polygons really isnt as much as some of you people think is. Well maybe for the sauerbraten engine, i have no idea. At the moment i am working on an AK47 model, its coming along nice i guess(but no where near done).

so any request, suggestions, or comments?

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#1: ..

by Julius on 09/16/2007 18:11

Uh I am 99% sure that is more that 504 triangles (it might be 504 n-gons, but that doesn't count in game engines).

Otherwise not bad, but maybe a bit too rectangular.

Oh and good choice of modeling application :p

I guess if you would create a low poly version, uvmap that, and render a normal-map out of it could be of some use.
But just the mesh is IMHO too much work left to get it running in game for anyone to quickly do.
But feel free to post the mesh anyways since maybe I am wrong about that.

P.S.: If you release it under a free license I would also add it to my webpage:
http://freegamearts.tuxfamily.org
(has nothing to do with Sauerbraten)

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#2: ..

by James007 on 09/16/2007 19:05

you like wings3d as well? nice, simple, and best of all free =]

umm....
idk what you mean. it is 504 polygons it says in the modeling program. i could use this model in many engines, its just that i havnt really gone beyond modeling(i've tried texturing and that was a mess). i could water the model down, and strip some detail to kill a few polygons. well actually i have many saved versions that are low detail.

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#3: ..

by Julius on 09/16/2007 19:58

The problem ist that "polygons" is a pretty broad term.
There can be 3,4,5 etc sided polygons, but polycount in game engines refers to the 3 sided only (since that is what graphic cards render internally).
But most modeling applications output the "polygon" number regardless of egde count.
Try to tiangulate the entire model and than have another look the the polycount.

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#4: ..

by James007 on 09/16/2007 20:25

ok i triangulated it, it came out to 1288 polygons...... is that bad triangular wise?

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#5: ..

by Captain_Ahab on 09/16/2007 20:36

for a pistol, in my humble opinion, yes..too many tris

I have made humans with fewer tris

a lot of the detail could be done with texturing which would save tris

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#6: Re: ..

by tentus_ on 09/16/2007 20:59, refers to #4

Just as a point of reference, the current pistol (complete with hand) has 335 triangles and 303 vertices. The verts aren't much of an issue, but going over 400 is generally bad.

Further reference:
Chaingun = 306 tris
Fist = 214 tris
Rifle = 266 tris
Rocket = 244 tris
Shotgun = 335 tris

The grenade launcher is the curious exception to the rule: it is the only gun in md3 format, and has a whopping 1050 faces.

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#7: Re: ..

by shadow,516 on 09/16/2007 21:23, refers to #6

note also that the grenade launcher is the only one that will probably stay the way it is. Most of these were made for cube, so I think you can afford about 1k tris on hudguns if you use them well. As aard always says, if you can make the best hudgun ever concieved in 3k tris, go for it.

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#8: ..

by James007 on 09/17/2007 02:50

Most of the Cube(Sauer weapons) are ugly... (lack of detail in the model)
I really dont think a thousand tri's or w/e would kill someones machine. I mean if you dont have a decent CPU or graphics card its not really my problem or concern. If thats what the whole low poly thing is about. Or maybe the Sauer engine handles high poly models badly? I dont know.

Im going for detail in the models.... will that be a problem when it comes to Sauer? I still dont understand this whole triangle thing, I mean I read in the posts above it has to do with graphics cards but I dont see where it all comes together.

In most retail games(even ugly ut2004), the models are more than 1000 polygons(probably even more "tri's". One Mod for ut2004(the Ballisitic Weapons pack) has weapons that go over 2000 polygons(how many tri's? idk), and they look fantastic(great detail).

forgive my noobness, i am a simple 3dmodeler.

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#9: Re: ..

by demosthenes on 09/17/2007 03:16, refers to #8

The GPU has to render each individual triangle one at a time, point by point. Since a hudgun is a constant load, you'd like it to be fairly small, though as the average GPU speed/power increases, you can use higher poly models, of course. So early hudgun models (all games now) had fairly low poly counts, because of the limitations on GPUs. Newer cards can handle large poly count hudguns without blinking.

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#10: ..

by Captain_Ahab on 09/17/2007 04:04

regardless of cpu/gpu power, fewer tris are better. Especially for monsters and mapmodels so that more can be displayed at once without slowdown. Detail should come from texturing for the most part.

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#11: ..

by SheeEttin on 09/17/2007 04:32

Nobody's mentioned it, so I might as well...

One of the "selling points" of Sauerbraten is that it can run pretty well on older hardware. Assuming you turn the shaders down and water effects off, of course.

That's the biggest reason for keeping the triangles down.

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#12: ..

by tentus_ on 09/17/2007 04:42

Some of my favorite hudguns to date had even fewer polys than the cube weapons... and I remember when DCP's hudguns (several of which are in use in Sauer now) where intended for people with "extra frames" just as shadows are intended for people with extra frames now. Goes to show how fast things are going in the graphics world.

But unlike shadows, reflections, and shaders, hudguns can't be adjusted to fit. Unless we have redundant models (low- and high-poly versions), everyone has to render the same guns every frame. I don't think people with older machines will appreciate being told they have to play with /hudgun 1 because the extra thousand triangles is making their machine hurt.

And those extra tris will rack up even faster if the plans for visible enemy weapons becomes a reality: suppose we have all the vweps at 1000 tris, times twelve players or so... 12000 tris at a time, which is about 11700 tris more than average right now. If the guns were streamlines to say 750 tris then we're only looking at 9000 extra, or 8700 tris above current.

Bottom line is, fewer polies will always have its merits. Most detail work can be achieved with clever use of texturing and angles, you just have to plan.

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#13: Re: ..

by shadow,516 on 09/17/2007 04:55, refers to #12

for detail, you can always make a ridiculously detailed model and a regular one, then generate normalmaps...

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#14: ..

by James007 on 09/17/2007 12:24

thanks for the info, i understand better. i have a lower poly version of the pistol, and of course its lower detail(and i am not going to texture it myself).

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#15: Making different vweps for different weps

by Jake77777 on 09/20/2007 02:53

I was planning on making vweps for each weapon. Like if a person if holding a rifle then i can see them holding the rifle. I was wondering if i would have to change any of the files, and then have to recompile the whole game. Im pretty sure you dont because i saw the files for the vweps and each weapon has its own vwep, which is \"pistol\" for all of them. So if i make the models and then change the names of the vweps for each weapon, then do u guys thing it will work?

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#16: Re: Making different vweps for different weps

by SheeEttin on 09/20/2007 04:09, refers to #15

I think you need to somehow tell it where it should be in relation to the body (so it's not being held by the barrel or other weird place), but other than that, yes, you shouldn't have too much trouble.

Of course, if I were doing it, I'd have no clue what I was doing.

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#17: ok...?

by James007 on 09/20/2007 21:27

Well any ways.....

Here is the AK47 im making, which is not quite not done yet. Its 587polys(1476 triangulated), 1718 vertices, the high* polycount is not because of detail(which i havnt really added any yet) but because the model is so big. The clip(which does need some work) and trigger are not attached to the actual model. Over 2 hours of work i think...

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=AK377.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=AK378.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=AK3710.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=AK379.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=AK3711.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=AK3712.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=AK375.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=AK376.jpg

I "made up" some parts of the model, but other wise i tried my best to make it look like an AK. Comments or questions, any thing?

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#18: Lower poly pistol.....

by James007 on 09/20/2007 21:40

The lower poly pistol model is 299 polys(616 triangulated...), well any ways here are some pics....

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=new1.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=newren2.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=newren1.jpg

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/junkwarJAMES/new%20models%2007/?action=view¤t=new2.jpg

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#19: ..

by SheeEttin on 09/20/2007 23:26

Not bad.
However, there are three things I don't like: on the AK-47, the magazine has a funny curve to it... You can see a good picture of an AK-47 here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AK-47_type_II_Part_DM-ST-89-01131.jpg

As for your pistol, the trigger exhibits the same funny curve. Also, the grip is rather thick and irregular; compare the shape of the Jericho 941 F here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jehrico_941_F.jpg

Of course, none of these will be really noticeable in-game... I'm just saying what I saw.

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#20: ....

by Jake77777 on 09/21/2007 01:30

I like the AK but i agree with SheeEttin that the magazine is curved differently then the real thing. I know a way to reduce the polycount. If you look at the existing models for sauer, the sides of the weapon you cant ever see are not there, to reduce the count. You could do that and, if you want to, add more detail to your model.

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