Master-mode abuse

by eihrul on 08/28/2007 10:06, 63 messages, last message: 11/26/2007 18:33, 13583 views, last view: 05/18/2024 21:40

Argh, there seems a lot of people around lately abusing master-mode, just taking it to kick people on a whim or randomly change maps against what the players actually want to play.

So, I was thinking a way to solve this might be that when you petition for master, you must have 1, just 1, other player approve your petition. Wouldn't curb all abuse, but would still keep unknown people from getting master in most circumstances, while still giving the master executive power to deal with problems like abusive/cheating players or managing the maps/gamemode responsibility (because players never bother to vote on maps).

I like this idea better than limiting the master's ability to do stuff, or requiring voting for things like kicking people (because players never bother to vote at all... ever).

Thoughts?

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#24: ..

by Zorro_hates_cookies2 on 08/31/2007 16:21

Mastermode is supposed to be powerful. Whatever powers you take away from cheaters you also take away from all the legitimate players. Voting for master or restriction of master powers is a pain to all the people just trying to manage their games.

I was on one rather-filled server and wanted to change the map because we ended up on the map we just played, but it turned out the server administrator hacked away mastermode 1 in the interest of democracy.

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#25: ..

by SanHolo on 08/31/2007 18:49

Voting in games does only work if the game pauses, everyone gets a short dialog in the middle of the screen and they have to click Yes or No.

I don't want that, I want to play. So, if you join a server and there is no master, claim master. If there is an asshole-master, leave the server. Too easy.

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#26: ...

by Rasputin [NOR] on 09/02/2007 19:53

99% of players don't even know how to replenish themselves in capture. I think that a master voting system will keep master within a small group of experienced, and known players.

The same 99% players won't know how to vote, and they don't even care - they just want to play.

On the TC-server, I see a lot of unnameds and unknowned players asking for master, and when they see that they just don't get it that easily they f... off rather quickly! It seems to me that the master voting system works =)

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#27: Re: ...

by eihrul on 09/02/2007 20:30, refers to #26

Yes, I am having the TC people test the system, since it's usually a crowded server where this problem occurs. We'll see how it goes.

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#28: Re: ...

by eihrul on 11/17/2007 06:15, refers to #27

Well, after testing on TC, the #approvemaster mod seems overwhelmingly positive. The only thing I can't decide is whether this should be enabled by default (and people must supply command-line flag to disable it), or should it be other way around, disabled by default, but people must enable it via command-line?

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#29: Re: ...

by Chaos on 11/17/2007 06:28, refers to #28

Setting as default would be best, IMO.

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#30: Re: ...

by demosthenes on 11/17/2007 08:13, refers to #28

Disabled by default if master server can't be reached, enabled by default if it can; commandline parameter to force it either way.

I don't want to make my newb friends vote me master every time we LAN.

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#31: Re: ...

by c0rdawg on 11/17/2007 14:20, refers to #30

Well if you own the server then you should be able to set the master password which I am certain will not require you to get a vote to take master that way...

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#32: ..

by Julius on 11/17/2007 14:30

Well somehow I got a completely different picture while playing lately (and making proper use of the master function):
Almost every server (including the TC servers) had NEVER a master when joining and while this wasn't a problem on servers without #approvemaster, it was one one those servers since really no one was able/bothered to type in the above line.
I even guess most of the time that small line "X wants to claim master" which dissapears quite quickly in fast games wasn't even noticed by 90% of the players.

If such a function is really implemented AT LEAST change the line to "#ok" or something similar that is quick to write.
Or even better finally implement a "on screen" voting system that needs only a single button press to vote.

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#33: ...

by Jake77777 on 11/17/2007 15:56

I think something needs to be done too. A few days ago i was playing team insta and i was kicked becuase i had a cheater on my team that had super speed. I said that i dont want him on my team. Then when the game was over i said gg if there wasnt any cheaters. Then i was kicked. So y did the cheater get to stay and i didnt?

I like sauerbraten but when there are people who kick u for saying that somebody is cheating or because you are winning (which has happened to me before), then it makes me want to quit playing.

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#34: ..

by JadeMatrix on 11/17/2007 16:39

OK, let me give this a shot.

have a command "/vote", used like:

/vote [kick unnamed] "for cheating"

This will then send a vote message:

Kick player unnamed for cheating?

which hovers just above each players hud. There is then Yes/No hotkeys to respond to the oldest vote. Only one player needs to type anything. This can also work for

/vote [map river_c]
/vote [mode 12] "capture"
/vote [insta]

etc.

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#35: Re: ..

by JadeMatrix on 11/17/2007 17:14, refers to #34

Forgot to mention, the vote message only stays there for 10-20 seconds, and the person to be voted off can't see it. You should also be able to vote a [spectate] (and hopefully a [depose] for masters who just don't know what they are doing).

Simple majority for a new map/mode, 3 votes to kick/spectate/depose (unless there are <4 players, then simple majority).

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#36: ..

by ZuurKool on 11/17/2007 22:17

The #approvemaster mod does work very nice indeed. Since the implementation there has been hardly any mastermode abuse. Small downside is that about 90% of the time there is no master at all. So when a cheater comes in people are often very late to respond. Map/mode changing is hardly an issue on TC server, because there is always capture played there. However i could imagine it being somewhat annoying on other servers with the #approvemaster command. But as i mentioned this is only a small downside i think.
The #kickmaster is a nice feature in theory, but so far i have never seen enough people vote for it that a master will actually get kicked.

As mentioned earlier the #approvemaster command could be made simpler, as it takes quite some time to type it in a busy game.

One annoying thing is that people have discovered to frustrate gameplay by asking for master over and over again, and that way completely filling the console with these messages. I imagine this could be solved by only being able to ask for master once every minute or so.

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#37: ..

by SanHolo on 11/18/2007 19:23

I don't think #approvemaster to be a good idea. Whenever this worked, there already was on of the TC people on the server (or just joined). However, when only noobs are online and you want to become master (because nobody is ATM) - no way, you need to tell somebody to please approve you as a master.

I'd vote to not implement this but rather implement a /join_as_master [pass] (or something).

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#38: ..

by MovingTarget on 11/18/2007 20:41

I think the #approvemaster is an ok idea, and it works pretty well most of the time, but like SanHolo said, when there's nobody but noobs on the server, they're probably not gonna vote for you, and when they realize how to try and grab master themselves, well... you get the picture.

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#39: slightly different approach

by c0rdawg on 11/18/2007 21:40

I think you should just make the first person who enters the server master. Doesn't matter if it's someone who doesn't know how to use it, it'll prevent someone from joining when theres a bunch of people, claiming master, and kicking them all. Of course you're going to have to make it so that master can be revoked so that if it is needed, it can be given to someone who knows how to use it. Although don't allow master to be revoked from someone who knows the server password...

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#40: Re: slightly different approach

by Passa on 11/19/2007 12:39, refers to #39

Then cheaters can simply join idle servers, wait for some people to join and then unleash havoc as master.

I think the master voting concept is good - in theory. In practice it is implemented poorly IMO. Having to type a long winded #approvemaster 1? What a pain! So of course many players simply do not vote, and it has happened to me many times when trying to claim master. The text showing the request is very quickly replaced by lines of 'blah fragged blah' and whatnot.

A secondary area for voting information to be shown in the hud would be brilliant, so people can not ignore a vote (and if it requires something as simple as a press of the page up button or something).

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#41: ..

by yvfc_cebtenzzre on 11/19/2007 12:43

I liked the old system, where anyone could claim master.

Regular players would always claim it and often stay a bit longer to make sure everything runs smoothly.

They'd often notify other regular players they they're about to quit and to grab master.


The whole voting thing stinks.

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#42: Re: slightly different approach

by SanHolo on 11/19/2007 13:57, refers to #40

So, how many times has it happened that you joined a one-player-is-there server, and that was a cheater and he unleashed hell when you played him? I bet it was zero. No cheater wants to wait for others, and if he does, then leave, can't be a busy server anyway.

The cheater-problem only persists when a cheater joins a crowded server and grabs master. I haven't seen this happen in a long time because most of the time, there is a master on the server. But what I have seen is a cheater on a server, no master and I was able to claim master and kick him within 2 seconds. That does not work with the approvemaster-system.

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#43: #approve x

by Morosoph on 11/19/2007 14:43, refers to #40

I agree that #approvemaster takes too long. #approve would be better, or even #a; the object isn't to make claiming master a lot of work, but simply to get agreement.

It might be an idea to reveal the identity of the approver, BTW. A newb could approve a cheater, and it would be an idea to be able to tell them they've made a mistake before quitting. Also, the cheater might ask their friend(!) to join in the fun (at others' expense).

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