guns that modify the map

by collinizer on 05/23/2007 00:52, 34 messages, last message: 06/12/2007 12:13, 9004 views, last view: 05/18/2024 21:17

I understand this does not fit in the pure DM paradigm that Sauerbraten aims for.

To have multiplayer editing and not use it during play seems like a bit of a waste.

Are there any mods out there which contain guns that can modify the map during play?

I'd love to help out if there are.

I know sauerbraten doesn't need too much of a physics engine but this sort of functionality could bennifit from it because it would create projectiles and chain reactions.

if anyone has already started, I'd prefer to help them instead of reinventing the wheel.

different guns could have different effects depending on the texture/material.

I've never done any modding before, but I have done a considerable ammount of cross platform C++ and openGL coding (in an attempt at my own engine).

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#1: ..

by ethan592 on 05/23/2007 01:29

nvrbored88 - aim
hit me up

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#2: ..

by collinizer on 05/23/2007 01:45

will do once I get home from teh old job.

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#3: ..

by Zorro on 05/23/2007 04:12

I've had this thought. It would provide interesting gameblay, but it would be difficult to make it so it doesn't seem like a hack.

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#4: Hmmm...

by Acord on 05/23/2007 05:00

Maybe you should be able to include tags in the map.cfg for a number of things - switched weapon models, max player speed, gravity, etc.

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#5: No

by Ringo Starr owns n00bs on 05/23/2007 05:01

Most of the things suggested in this thread just add bloat that we don\'t need.

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#6: Re: No

by hungerburg on 05/23/2007 13:09, refers to #5

Who owns Ringo Starr?

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#7: ..

by collinizer on 05/23/2007 18:43

well like I said, it doesn't fit in with the pure DM aspect of the game. but it would make an excellent mod, it would set Sauerbraten apart, and be really fun. It could also be used for the RPG, where combat is more complicated.

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#8: Re: ..

by kurtis84 on 05/23/2007 23:58, refers to #7

I think you guys are forgetting ( never knew? ) that you have to compile lighting, if you move geometry....so the first time a bullet hits "damagable geometry", the lightmaps will go to shit, leaving some parts in 100% fullbright, and some parts in 100% darkness.

Just forget this idea people.

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#9: ..

by collinizer on 05/24/2007 00:30

you mean sauerbraten doesn't support dynamic lighting?

that can be fixed, and new maps can be built.

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#10: Re: ..

by kurtis84 on 05/24/2007 00:43, refers to #9

Yes thats what I mean. Before you get too happy about adding dynamic lighting, make sure you keep in mind the \"final\" sauerbraten will have a very large rpg game in it. You have to allow the mapsizes to stay the same they are now...and even get larger in the future. I\'m yet to see anything that can have maps the size sauer can, and have it ALL in view at one time...nothing cut off by fog, or anything else, AND dynamic lighting....oh yeah, AND run old hardware. Remember that despite the nice rendering features you might see in sauer, all it takes is one command line parm to allow it to run on old video cards that do not use shaders at all...these old video cards will FLOP if you add dynamic lighting in.

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#11: Re: ..

by collinizer on 05/24/2007 02:32, refers to #10

Yes, I can understand how you want the code to be as portable as possible and remain competitive for people with crap computers. but i'm pretty sure lights can move around without fragment shaders. even my old crappy engine (I called it Atlas there is no website) could do dynamic lighting on a geforce 4 without breaking a sweat.


can sauerbraten do maps larger than NASA blue marble, WoW, or google earth? ;) jk seriously though frustum culling, greater use of parametric shapes, and heirarchical/ proceedural objects combined with the OC-tree could push map sizes to the cosmic realm.
</dreaming>

The additional undiscussed requirements lending to this type of functionality are a drastic departue from saurbratens hardcore static identity.

Once a gun can modify geometry other things become helpful and nessesary a robust dynamics engine, material physics, and a statics engine.

that's why this should be thought of as a total conversion mod as opposed to an add-on.

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#12: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 05/24/2007 02:58, refers to #11

dynamic lighting is easy and cheap... just that it will look like crap without dynamic shadows, which are VERY expensive in the general case.

really, everytime someone posts on this forum "why don't you just implement X
?", they should stop for a second and think, "Why are the creators of sauer so blind to a feature that seems so easy to me?".

Really, myself (and eihrul) have an intimate knowledge of shadow techniques, be they any of the shadow map / shadow volume variants, spherical harmonics etc. We also understand their performance implications on different hardware generations, and for different kinds of scenes (just because some technique can run on your machine in a demo doesn't mean it will work with many light sources in a larger world).

We are capable of implementing any system, and we constantly evaluate them, so when we choose not to, there's a very good reason behind it. We are not as clueless about graphics as a lot of people appear to assume.

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#13: Re: ..

by collinizer on 05/24/2007 04:05, refers to #12

Of Course!

Don't get me wrong here guys, I have a HUGE ammount of respect for you. you have tackled a technological challenge no other team has with collabrative mapping. (second life does not count)

I know that your design decisons have been done with foresight, careful planning, and specific goals in mind. I have no desire to change the direction or underlying implementation of Sauerbraten itself. it's a perfect fast deathmatch FPS period.

I have been looking for a great engine to implement my own career goals for years. I've attempted my own engine, tried others, and restarted more times than duke nukem forever, Sauerbraten fits the bill a hell of a lot more than anything else. I know I have a lot of code and work ahead of me. I know graphics must take a huge hit to enable the complexity I'm planning. That's OK because my primary goals are collaberation, interactivity and physics, with graphics comming in last. I'd even sacrifice textures for Christs sake! more or less I'm just investigating to see if this really is the engine I plan on using.

The importance of a collabrative mapping enviornment is something much larger than Sauerbraten. Indeed It's much more important than any game. It will make you filthy rich if you play your cards right.

I work for a large oilfield services contractor in the Design Technology department. I write AutoCAD addons and I help manage multiple large scale engineering projects with thousands and thousands of drawings. Sauerbraten is at least five years ahead of the collabrative software we use. and we pay too much for it.

I would bet that the relevent contributors will be hired on by Autodesk Bentley or Microstation to bring this *much* needed next step into engineering design.

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#14: SHL

by ethan592 on 05/24/2007 04:55

I WANT SHL aard! lol jk, but that would be sweet. its one of my possible thesis projects tho.

you people really are missing the point tho. we are not going to do this as part of sauer so quit complaining that its bloat. and we are really just trying to see if its possible to make it work in gameplay.

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#15: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 05/25/2007 22:38, refers to #13

sounds cool... maybe autodesk can pay this company lots of money to consult for them: dot3labs.com

;)

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#16: aaaaaaaa

by sdasda on 05/30/2007 08:39

Just play in fullbright

Geomod rulz

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#17: Re: aaaaaaaa

by ethan592 on 05/31/2007 01:20, refers to #16

there are other things we could do, a much simplified lighting system could still work.

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#18: ..

by theW4, finally can post again on 05/31/2007 21:35

Are you thinking about something like fracture?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtHwY7JnG74

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#19: ..

by Geartrooper on 06/01/2007 18:31

there was a tribes mod where you could add mapmodels like blocks and sandbags with a gun. might be cool to build an insta-base of sandbags.

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#20: Re: ..

by mechahahaaa on 06/01/2007 19:10, refers to #19

haha I played that so much! I made huge bases with forcefields and mechas and shit...

wow I think I wanna hunt it down again thanks for reminding me!

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