Linux vs. Windows

by Necrolin on 12/19/2006 13:19, 42 messages, last message: 12/21/2006 21:39, 12546 views, last view: 05/18/2024 21:16, closed on 12/22/2006 00:55

I\'ve got the strangest little problem. I\'ve got a dual boot machine with Ubuntu Linux and Windows XP SP2 running on it. If I boot into Windows, the default config on a fresh install of Sauerbraten gives me 9 fps. The default config on Linux gives me 140 fps!!!! What gives?

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#13: Re: ..

by Passa on 12/20/2006 06:15, refers to #12

It could just simply be his Sauerbraten configuration you know..

And yes, Vista is going to kill Windows gaming.. unless you have 4GB of RAM and SLI 8800GTX system, but then again, the same configuration under Windows XP would run way faster. In recent tests PC User found Battlefield 2 performance under Vista drop 50% from XP, similar results for other games too..

Anyway, enough off topic already, none of the differences you've mentioned would result in Sauerbraten getting 140FPS on Linux and 9FPS on Windows.

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#14: ..

by SanHolo on 12/20/2006 08:47

As a sidenote, I tested sauerbraten on my Mac with Mac OS X 10.4.8 (current) and an early beta of 10.5 (WWDC). Even that early beta of 10.5 gives a 5 - 10% increase in fps, measured with exactly the same useraccount and the same sauerbraten installation.

Would be interesting to install Ubuntu Edgy and see how it compares...

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#15: ..

by Drakas on 12/20/2006 09:50

Well, one thing is that, really, people whine that Linux is better cause "Windows sucks". Windows sucks for them because it gets viruses, crashes all the time and simply pisses people off. However, this has a very little to do with Microsoft. Only the thing is that these people don't know how to use Windows, they just try to tear it apart - they use IE, they download random software off the net, they just do all kinda of crap and expect the system to perform good. Well, after this - the system is f*cked (thats why admins hate it!), and users have done it themselves! I can't stand using somebody else's Windows PC because it simply gets too laggy and there is hardly a way to actually clean it all up because of the system design!


And when going to GNU/Linux systems, they only get nicer because you can try to tear them apart as much as you want, get random software off the net - and everything is easily restorable! The main thing with GNU systems is that they simply allow multiple user accounts and rarely have root access used by a usual user. If the user gets some kind of problems with the computer, it is very easy to create a new account, really! So the system is back at full speed!

So why does it seem to some people that Windows is slower? Simply, Windows is a larger OS. Overall, Windows simply is not as efficient as using the hard drive and other resources. When going to 3D graphics, really, there should be no difference unless the drivers are bad! None of the 3D code is read while rendering from the hard drive, it is all done with the GPU and partially with the CPU. So the system simply won't intefer with this.

Well, don't give statistics to us unless you have fresh installs.

"140FPS on Linux and 9FPS on Windows" < Well, it's kinda obvious, isn't it? this is 15 times less FPS rate on Windows. Isn't it obvious? You have bad drivers. Your configuration is bad. You don't know how to use Windows? :-)

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#16: ..

by SanHolo on 12/20/2006 10:22

The problem with Windows is that Microsoft creates ist OS for a user which does not exist in reality.

They put animated dogs on the screen while a search is performed and a million stupid dialogs tell you what is happening; this is obviously to aid the non-geek computer user.
But then again, you have to be an IT nerd to not fuck up the system by actually using it.

Windows could be good, and maybe you can make it good, but out of the box, it isn't, and on most managed systems, it isn't.

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#17: Re: ..

by sinsky on 12/20/2006 14:49, refers to #16

The Windows user exists. He doesn't usually care about windows, dogs and dialogs. The Windows user wants to use the software everyone else uses, to make sure his stuff runs on everyone else's computers. Linux users are somehow obsessed with Linux and performance, while Windows users are obsessed with their stuff, not Windows itself. Imagine what will happen if we get cheap, super-fast computers tomorrow. Well Windows and "Cool Pefrormance OS" on another scale, maybe, but whatever survives from the current software, will not be on performance basis.

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#18: Re: ..

by SanHolo on 12/20/2006 16:29, refers to #17

I know that this Windows user exists. He makes most probably up for the biggest marketshare amongst all compter users. However, this Windows user cannot use his Windows without getting spyware, trojans and/or becoming part of a botnet. And THAT is what Microsoft is doing wrong.

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#19: Re: ..

by Boggel-doesnt-like-replacing-cookies on 12/20/2006 18:08, refers to #9

You're wrong!

I had the game nexuz (or whatever the hell) and with windows i would get around 60 fps (yes with vsync off). with linux i get 100 (also with any kind of vsync off).

Thats a cold hard fact. I personally use both OSs and i know the one i prefer for regular use. The only thing that holds linux back is 3rd party support, although even this is getting better.

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#20: ..

by Boggel-doesnt-like-replacing-cookies on 12/20/2006 18:11

ps: you probably have an ATi card. the linux drivers for them suck. So its not linux's fault, its just the ATi drivers.

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#21: ..

by 1veedo on 12/20/2006 22:05

[quote=Drakas]However, this has a very little to do with Microsoft.[/quote]

You dont seem to understand the problem with Windows then. If Windows were better then it wouldn't get viruses, crash, nor piss people off. These are the symptoms of underlying problems that Microsoft needs to fix.

[quote]Only the thing is that these people don't know how to use Windows, they just try to tear it apart - they use IE, they download random software off the net, they just do all kinda of crap and expect the system to perform good. Well, after this - the system is f*cked (thats why admins hate it!), and users have done it themselves![/quote]

The difference here is that Linux wont get fucked up no matter how stupid the user is. You actually have to [i]try[/i] to screw up a Linux computer. On Windows, you have to try in order to NOT screw things up. See the difference? Why put in effort to not fuck things up when you can put in no effort and everything works fine?

[quote]If the user gets some kind of problems with the computer, it is very easy to create a new account, really! So the system is back at full speed![/quote]

The only thing I can say is..wow. This is not how things work. Maybe if you understood Linux you could talk about it a little better. The difference between Windows and Linux users is that most Linux users have extensive knowledge about Windows and Linux while most Windows people usually don't even understand Windows. Linux users are usually "nerds," maybe not socially, but they understand a lot about computers.

[quote=Boggel-doesnt-like-replacing-cookies]The only thing that holds linux back is 3rd party support, although even this is getting better.[/quote]

1) Yes, Linux has third party support. You can pay for it -- Suse, Ubuntu, Red Hat, etc.
2) Linux doesn't need third party support for the end user (as compared to a company). You can easily ask for and get help.


Just an FYI to I think two people claiming they have the same if the drivers are good, did you not read post #9? The X server is SLOWER than Windows. The only way a Windows game is showing slower FPS is if the Windows install is very old -- in which case the poster needs to reinstall Windows. There could of course be odd games that for whatever reason run faster, and maybe sauerbraten is one of them, but I dobt it.

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#22: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 12/20/2006 22:16, refers to #21

The problem is that, due to difficult configuration, incomplete hardware support, different packaging systems, and hobby-driven applications, Linux doesn't just work the way Windows does.

If I have a device I need to work on windows, I just google the device name, "driver", and windows version and I download it.

If I'm on Linux, it's never that easy. I still can't get my voodoo2 to do anything on my legacy box - and the voodoo2 was the single most popular video accelerator of it's generation - and I was using Xubuntu, which is ostensibly a distro for legacy support (never mind it bundles with a painful list of openGL screensavers that will make your computer seize up if you're actually using a machine old enough to require Xubuntu).

Things just work in windows. They may be insecure and cumbersome, but they always work. Conversely, doing anything in Linux involves a lengthy research process and begging the command-line to do what you want.

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#23: Re: ..

by Passa on 12/20/2006 22:35, refers to #22

Well said, and one more thing:

"The difference here is that Linux wont get fucked up no matter how stupid the user is."

Wrong, stupid people can't use Linux because it just isn't user friendly enough yet. Tell me, whats the difference between installing drivers for graphics cards on Windows and Linux? Windows is WAAY easier, but computer newbies can't even do that anyway, let alone on Linux. Stuff isn't quite like 'double click and it works' like on Windows.

Boggel, I'll stress this again, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN PERFORMANCE BETWEEN WINDOWS AND LINUX. This thread is not a Windows VS Linux thread and I shouldn't have said what I just said in the above paragraph, but I cbf deleting it. There was an OS wars thread long ago, resurrect that if you want to argue.

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#24: Re: ..

by SanHolo on 12/21/2006 00:39, refers to #22

Of course "things just work on Windows"; Windows is what 90% of all CEOs believe drives all computers in the world, they don't probably even know that there are other OS'es out there which don't have access to all the MS-proprietary-bullshit.

I hate Microsoft for locking all others out.

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#25: Re: ..

by kurtis84 on 12/21/2006 00:55, refers to #24

Just for the record here, I have run the Vista beta. It does use a bit more power than winxp does, but it does NOT kill gaming performance. I ran it on a starved for ram system ( 512mb ), and got about the same performance from games...and YES, you can have opengl games in vista...you just have to install the drivers just like any other OS before this one.

Also, I have run linux and windows side by side. 2 hd's, one for each OS. I saw nothing to sway me either direction as far as performance with an nvidia video card. It's pointless to argue about this one. Finally, I've went back to just winxp, because I can run anything I want. I think the "what OS is best" is up to the individual, and what he/she wants to do on a pc. I refuse to side with linux, just on the basis that we have to pay for MS software, and I refuse to side with MS, just because they are on every damn PC on the market. Both OS'es are great.

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#26: Re: ..

by Passa on 12/21/2006 01:42, refers to #24

MS doesn't lock others out, Apple lock others out.

Thanks to the PC (which runs Windows and Linux by the way) there is a WHOLE new industry of people manufacturing PCs. The number of small PC building businesses is amazing.

Apple on the other hand has made their system extremely proprietary and made sure that only THEY can build systems.

I hate Apple for locking all others out.

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#27: Re: ..

by shadow,516 on 12/21/2006 03:36, refers to #13

ummm... I dual boot with XP and Vista Ultimate, and there is like a 20% increase in framerate for sauer...

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#28: Re: ..

by Greywhind on 12/21/2006 05:12, refers to #26

No. Windows locks people out. See the .docx format for an extremely annoying example.

And Apple has the right to lock people out - they have < 5% market share. Microsoft does not.

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#29: Re: ..

by Passa on 12/21/2006 08:21, refers to #28

Mac users.. so blind to their criticisms of Microsoft.. your slight criticisms of Microsoft are nothing compared to what Apple does.

Take the plank out of your eye before you take the splinter out of someone elses ;) (even if you have <5% of the market share)

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#30: the reason why linux is so much faster..

by Aardappel_ on 12/21/2006 10:03

in games, and everything else, is neatly explained this article, with benchmarks, comparisons of various linux distros, graphics cards, and an analysis of all that sucks in windows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

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#31: It's not the graphics

by rancor on 12/21/2006 10:40

Any cases where Linux outperforms Windows tend to be due to Linux's superior VM, networking, and IO subsystems, with lower application memory useage in typical desktop configurations as a side factor. Although, it may just be me, but it feels like Linux tends to remain more responsive under heavy load, which would help.

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#32: Re: ..

by Passa on 12/21/2006 12:48, refers to #32

Umm, are you forgetting that practically everything else on Linux requires a command line to install?

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