quad damage discussion :-)

by YG2F on 10/05/2006 13:32, 48 messages, last message: 10/12/2006 17:12, 11694 views, last view: 05/18/2024 21:44

Hi,


I don't like the quad damage, because only those who know where it is can catch it, and usualy "we" catch it again and again because "we" are afraid that an other player catch it :-B




My proposal is not to remove it.

My proposal is that only "weak" players can catch it.

By "weak", i mean, for example, players who has a score bellow the average score.



What do you think about thisq quad damage ?

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#1: ..

by chead on 10/05/2006 13:51

How hard is it to figure out where the quad is?

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#2: Re: ..

by rpointon on 10/05/2006 14:10, refers to #1

If people don't preview/practise on the maps before joining multiplayer then they deserve to be fragged to oblivion.

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#3: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 10/05/2006 14:11, refers to #1

Well, if it's not obviously located, or the map has enough good players that it's snatched up right on spawn, it can be hard to find the location of the Quad... but that's more of a mapping problem. I prefer maps where the major pickups are in dead-obvious locations so you don't get the one player who knows the trivia of the map can obtain them.

Limiting the quad to players who are losing would be the height of silliness. Already Sauer is better than most FPS games since the respawning of the major pickups is given by a countdown timer. It's worse in Quake-style games, since there only the last player to pickup the quad (and who's pathetically hardcore enough to count the seconds in between) knows when the powerup will respawn. At least in Cube/Sauer there's the countdown.

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#4: ..

by SanHolo on 10/05/2006 14:15

I think the idea is stupid. Sorry, but good players are good player because they know the map, that's an important point. It's actually a pity that there now is an announcer to the quad, that makes it too easy to get it already...

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#5: Re: ..

by Pxtl on 10/05/2006 14:22, refers to #4

SanHolo, some of us are here to play DM, not trivial pursuit. If you like maps that let the hardcores lord their obscure knowledge over the noobs, that's your business - but I prefer to win because I can outfight and outcontrol the others, not because I happen to know the double-secret-special-tricks.

Anything that makes the game easier to navigate and understand is a good thing. But OPs idea of actually providing negative feedback to help the newbs is very very silly.

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#6: ..

by SanHolo on 10/05/2006 14:46

Oh, I meant no offense here, sorry for that.

I just think that now when the quad and healthboost get announced it is easier to get them, and therefore it is easier to play better; you don't have to trial-and-error the quads location as often as before. That's all, I didn't want to imply more than that.
IMHO that's enough goodwill, you shouldn't remove the elements that make a player play good. Knowing the map is one big advantage.

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#7: Pickup philosophy

by MeatROme on 10/05/2006 16:44

Actually I'm not very fond of the quad-damage pickup myself - on small maps at least - since it tends to be in someone's hands at any one time and that player just goes on a rampage ... even your best tactics and movement won't help against quad.

But that's just me and the way of the quad.

I seldom place one on my maps and would wish for maybe having a toggle to omit it from gameplay (maybe this could be the difference between "ffa" [0] and "duel" [2,3]).

But other than that I'd argue that any good player will know about the importance of map-control. Which is a lot about movement and weapon-of-choice but also about keeping key items under your control ... like quad and health-boost.
What most inexperienced players tend to overlook is picking up armour and health ... for the life of me, I can't understand why.

a quick search produced this:
http://www.purepwnage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30622

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#8: ummm

by Aardappel_ on 10/05/2006 19:27

I am not sure if people realize that the powerups already are very newbie friendly in sauer.

In quake, you not only don't know where they are, you won't know when they spawn. So the pros who are trained on timing, will get every quad. In sauer at least you get the 10 second warning, so everyone has a chance of obtaining it.

If its not the quad, its going to be the yellow armour to make things unfair. You have to at least have a rough look where the major items are if you want to play MP. Its not that hard. Sauer is a very fair game to newbs, all things considered... but don't expect frags to come for free on your first go at a map.

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#9: ..

by SanHolo on 10/05/2006 19:33

word, MeatROme and Aardappel!

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#10: ..

by Drakas on 10/05/2006 19:44

IMO, game becomes unfair on the newbs because the pros simply take everything they can :)

I sometimes run around with 200 armour, 200 health and quad damage :)
So I pretty much can own :)

Somebody wanting to kill me will have to use four shots of rifle or a shotgun twice :)

I don't actually feel that it is fair for the newbs anyway.

we could be more fair to noobs but the offer of quad is too big to let go :)

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#11: Quad

by rock.n.rol on 10/05/2006 19:59

I never take the f...ing quad, but i agree, its important for gameplay (and for newbies to have a chance against good players). The announcements were a bit hard to get used to (the voices), but i see its a fantastic tactical element... :)

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#12: Re: Quad

by MeatROme on 10/05/2006 20:10, refers to #11

only trouble now is with multiple Health-Boost and/or Quad-Damage entities ... you have to know which one it's gonna be ... but asking for a directional pointer flashing up would be ... ah, well, somebody is bound to ... one of these days :)

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#13: ..

by Max of S2D [Fr] on 10/05/2006 20:13

Why not have the choice to activate/disable the voice events via a command in a map CFG ?

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#14: Re: ..

by rancor on 10/05/2006 20:41, refers to #10

But pwning n00bs is fun!

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#15: hmm

by metlslime on 10/05/2006 23:21

Well, as several people said, knowing the map is a necessary element of being a good player. If you take away the quad, the player who knows where all the health and ammo is would still have an advantage. And if there were no item pickups at all, the player who can predict where their opponent is going and intercept them with a different route will still have an advantage.

Now, that doesn't means that it's impossible to learn a map online during an FFA match, and one thing that could benefit this would something like a "spawn pad" with the quad icon on it -- some quake dm maps had something similar with a unique logo under each weapon spawn.

I also remember long ago talking to Aard about having all un-spawned items still visible in ghost form, so you know where the items are even if they are absent. This is still sort of an interesting idea, and it seems like it could only mildly be exploited (after all, expert players would not benefit from this at all, so it couldn't give an unfair advantage to anyone but an underdog.)

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#16: Unknown Location?

by Morosoph on 10/06/2006 12:19

Just like you get lots of playerstarts, how about boost/quad occurs is one of several locations? Divide the time-to-respawn by the number of instances, but then randomise where it'll turn up; only one of the instances is active at any one time...

Just a thought; although experienced players still have the edge, you can't just hang around in the right place.

I weaker, yellow "double-damage" might be good too. Then one can have a few DDs, and a single QD, maybe?

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#17: hidden quad

by Sparr on 10/06/2006 17:55

So I guess you don't like where I put the quad in Serpentine?

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#18: ..

by CrazyTB on 10/08/2006 01:19

I don't think Quad damage gives so big advantage.

However, the Health Boost in sauerbraten really gives big advantage, because a player who can "control" all (or most) health boosts in a map can easily go up to 200 health, and thus be a lot harder to defeat.

I like the idea of shadowed item pickups.

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#19: Re: ..

by Passa on 10/08/2006 01:29, refers to #18

"I don't think Quad damage gives so big advantage."

Yes, its unbelieveably fun to frag newbs who have the quad damage :P

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#20: Re: ..

by Max of S2D [Fr] on 10/08/2006 08:27, refers to #18

And it's unbelievably fun to frags others players with QUAD.

Sorry, but it give a really big advantage ^^

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6161/screenshot3931672bx0.jpg

2+2 ? Arg, but who was thinking i was Einstein ? XD

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