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Considering shutting down master server...

by eihrul on 09/18/2006 02:59, 114 messages, last message: 10/21/2006 04:37, 84319 views, last view: 05/19/2022 14:22

Well, today I've seen the biggest display of immaturity I've ever seen. People running around, connecting to servers as soon as they saw someone else connect, crashing other clients, banning them, etc.

If this is what it has come to, we'll just shut down the master server. People only seem to want to abuse the service we're graciously providing for free, and fuck it up for everyone else.

If that's the case, if that's what some of you guys really want, fine, we'll just shut down the service since it's basically unusable to anyone as is.

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#35: Re: notes:

by StillPeter on 09/18/2006 22:14, refers to #33

I think the checksums thing is more to place a hurdle so that it's less easily done than simply changing a few values and compiling.

I fully realise that the right checksums can be gained by checksumming a genuine client, taking that value and using a modified client to send that value to the server for confirmation. I know it won't stop people who are a little more determined, but I would hope it would stem the tide a little.

I hope the masterserver can be turned on again relatively soon.

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#36: Re: notes:

by Passa on 09/18/2006 23:33, refers to #33

Lets hope the master server being turned off teaches those bastards a lesson..

BTW like Aardappel said about static IPs for server operators, if you have a dynamic IP, but a cable connection (which can hold the IP for weeeks) try changing your username on the modem, resetting it (it wont connect then obviously) wait a few minutes, reset it again, put your full username back in, and then reset the router/modem again.. you should have a different IP..

For those who have a static IP, you might have to turn your servers off for a while. The cheaters will have servers.cfg in their Sauerbraten directory obviously..

For those who want to meet up to find games, install mIRC (http://www.mirc.com/) then just go in the typing area bit at the bottom.. '/server uk.quakenet.org', press enter, once youre connected type /join #sauerbraten and youre done :D

The more people in #sauerbraten the better, so get on any IRC client and join the channel :P

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#37: damn them

by kurtis84 on 09/19/2006 00:11

Well, this sucks, but I'm sure it'll help in the long run. It's not such a big deal to meet via IRC to get a game organized...at least then you'll all know what to expect early. I don't expect any "smart" cheaters to use IRC to find the games either...it would expose them.

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#38: Re: damn them

by rancor on 09/19/2006 00:55, refers to #37

But my university blocks IRC...

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#39: Re: notes:

by Aardappel_ on 09/19/2006 02:08, refers to #36

I just joined a channel "#sauerlobby" on the same channel... we can experiment and see if people that want to play can hang out here.

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#40: ..

by Sauceofallevils.. on 09/19/2006 05:11

Well it would be a cool feature to be alb eto vote someone off, but it won't stop cheaters. It would obviously not be the solution, but in future, it might be aneat feautre to consider. Every game will have cheaters, who want to cheat every chance they get, it's a given. They are pussy gamers and have no other choice. I was playing instagib, and a guy had a machinegun! It was ridicolous, people should learn to play fairly.

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#41: ...

by Conor on 09/19/2006 05:54

Why not just have everybody get a master password?

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#42: Re: notes:

by CrazyTB on 09/19/2006 06:06, refers to #36

> install mIRC (http://www.mirc.com/)

Or use Opera, which has a built-in IRC client.


About cheat-protection, I think the server can do some checks to avoid people with too much health, doing too much damage, or firing too much. This will avoid one type of cheaters, but won't protect against cheaters crashing clients (which is only protected by fixes in the code itself, and I guess eihrul and Aard are trying to fix it).


About sending client checksum: please forget this idea. This is too easy to spoof. Once I know what the correct checksum is, I could hard-code it and always send it, instead of sending the actual checksum.


The password authentication looks interesting to me, but probably won't solve the problem (I guess cheaters will be able to get passwords or a valid account)

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#43: Re: notes:

by SanHolo on 09/19/2006 12:34, refers to #33

Aard, of course you are right; I just think altering the checksum-code is way harder than to change some simple variables like firing-rate, at least for script-kiddies. It would be just one hurdle more. But right, it won't last too long once someone posts the altered code somewhere...

Damn, those cheaters should get some balls and play fair, losers!

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#44: cube1/2 servers??

by mdkusr123 on 09/19/2006 19:13

So, no master servers can be reached anymore. Where to find cube1 and sauerbraten servers now?

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#45: Re: cube1/2 servers??

by eihrul on 09/19/2006 21:11, refers to #44

Join #sauerlobby on irc.quakenet.org

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#46: ..

by PunDit on 09/19/2006 21:18

What about using certificates. Setup an official Sauer cert authority to have people create their own public private key pair. This will help establish identity. Then authentication and authorization can be accomplished with a bit of code like

Client sends its pub key

Server compares client public key with the one on file (keystore)

If it matches the one in the store then goto next step.

Server generates a one time token and encrypts it with the clients public key

The client decrypts the token with his private key. Then reencrypts it with the server public key and sends it back.

The server decrypts the token and verifies it against the originally generated token.

If it is verified then he checks for certificate revocation, and allows or disallows the client.

The cert authority would send the certs to an e-mail address after say 24hrs.

This would make it so the user could be banned. If they feel the need to re-create certs then they have to wait 24hrs. This could also be implemented on a standalone server by checking back with the master server for pub cert verification.

Sorry if it is not an option or welcome suggestion. The whole reason I posted this is because I have felt the effects of the cheaters and want to contribute to the solution if possible.

This will not stop cheaters but make it a lot harder for them to hide and continue cheating.

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#47: ..

by Passa on 09/19/2006 23:14

Well, its down now, but did you have to close the Cube masterserver too?

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#48: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 09/19/2006 23:50, refers to #47

oops lemme check that

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#49: ..

by concered citizen on 09/20/2006 01:55

give us the masterserver source so we can make our own masterservers on our own sites!!!!

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#50: Re: ..

by pushplay on 09/20/2006 02:14, refers to #46

Remember that the higher the cost of creating a new identity the more we shut out cheaters as well as new players. We need a ghettos of newbies and potential cheaters as well as a utopia of community members.

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#51: I understand but...

by Blindabuser on 09/20/2006 04:56

First of all, let me express my admiration and support for Aardappel, eihrul, makkE and all the developers, thanks to whom we can play this great game. I understand the problem of cheaters, as I've been fragged more than once by people having edit-mode in ffa/default, and infinite health/ammonitions, not to mention how many times I've been kicked off by unfair players who ban people randomly: that's just frustrating.

Stated that, let's examine pros and cons of having shut down the masterserver.

Cons:

1) Cheaters can still access all the static-IP servers, including (but not limited to) Alpha Base, as they are still on many people's "servers.cfg"

2) Newcomers/Newbies could neither connect in multiplayer nor know that there's an IRC channel available. Of course not many people might bother installing mIRC or other clients for just setting a DeatMatch location.

3) People with a dynamic IP (i.e. me, as my provider automatically assign IPs through DHCP) can't make their server public anymore, which leads to a lack of players (me and my friends are four).

Pros: (add your own)

Every single game has cheaters, including the most famous ones: they are a pest, but you can't easily get rid of them. I love this game for many reasons, it's a real shame to penalize fair players for few kiddies. I can live with cheaters as long as I know I'm playing honestly. In conclusion, I understand you in full but please, take back the masterserver.

Thank you very much, in advance. :)


Her'e a little advice for those wanting to join the IRC channel but are unwilling/unable to install a client.

Go to: http://www.ircatwork.com/
fill in the required fields:

Name: unnamed (joking!)
Server: irc.quakenet.org
Channel: #sauerlobby

Press enter and you're done!

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#52: Nevermind

by Blindabuser on 09/20/2006 05:25

I've talked to eihrul and others nice guys at the IRC channel, and they have explained me everything. Please, ignore my previous post: there was no intention to argue about this topic. :)

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#53: ..

by Stakhanov on 09/20/2006 17:04

"un-french" ? Nonsense :P

I'm not sure what a "patriot act" for Cube should be :P but it is hard to not feed the trolls when they are fishing in a barrel (taking control of the few existing Cube servers) so we need a way to get rid of them... active hunting maybe ? I'm sure there are netcoders skilled enough to track them down and teach them a lesson.

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#54: Re: ..

by CCmachine_firefox2 on 09/20/2006 19:38, refers to #54

ok, i can see why you guys have taken this drastic action, but imo, prax is right, multiplayer will die slowly in sauer.

one suggestion: have an integrated lobby with chat rooms like in the homeworld game series (if youve heard of them..) well, here is how it would work:

1.there would be a number of chat rooms with names such as "newbie" "intermediate" and "elite" or whatever the devs want to call them

2.you could join whichever lobby/chatroom is appropriote for you, this would be integrated into the sauerbraten client so no messing around with IMs

3. you could chat with people and arrange games there, and have a whisper command(or be able to create sub-rooms which are passworded to make for easier chat between trusted people only) to give server IPs to only people you want to play with

4. (maybe) once a game has started, players cant join it no matter what the circumstances, so no chance of cheaters getting in, and once one game has ended you would be sent back to the lobby

just a thought, and soz for long read

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