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Considering shutting down master server...

by eihrul on 09/18/2006 02:59, 114 messages, last message: 10/21/2006 04:37, 94468 views, last view: 02/25/2024 05:50

Well, today I've seen the biggest display of immaturity I've ever seen. People running around, connecting to servers as soon as they saw someone else connect, crashing other clients, banning them, etc.

If this is what it has come to, we'll just shut down the master server. People only seem to want to abuse the service we're graciously providing for free, and fuck it up for everyone else.

If that's the case, if that's what some of you guys really want, fine, we'll just shut down the service since it's basically unusable to anyone as is.

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#21: Re: protocol/votekick (was : no subject set)

by MeatROme on 09/18/2006 17:24, refers to #19

Huh? Please take more time to write your posts, they are very hard to understand, since english is found to be so un-french by the French ... I actually got by better on german than on english when I went driving through your country once.

If you're suggesting for Sauerbraten to go closed-source because of this recent wave of vandalism that would put me in dire straits indeed ... I'm learning so much and having tremendous fun into the bargain. And the "terrorist" argument also holds true - let's not give in to a few vandals trying to wreck our community.

I'm not sure what the difference between votekick and the existing kick command is supposed to be - if it is simply that kicking is decided by majority vote then you can already simply inform the current master of your opinion via in-game chat ... no need for voting on it IMO.

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#22: Re: checksum idea (was : no subject set)

by MeatROme on 09/18/2006 17:27, refers to #20

Indeed, this is to easy to spoof.

As I understand it eihrul has some aesthetic issues with reusing the trick they used for Cube to make self-compiled binaries incompatible with the release-versions ... also there is an increasing number of players running on architecture where no official build exists (64-bit for example) ... so I don't know if that approach would go down to well with those guys & gals ...

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#23: Re: checksum idea (was : no subject set)

by StillPeter on 09/18/2006 17:33, refers to #22

Damn, I didn't think about that.

There's got to be a better way than closing the masterserver.

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#24: ..

by makkE on 09/18/2006 17:39

Something must be done for sure. I think the solution cube had was pretty good, though releases might be too fast still atm to do it. Maybe once its somewhat final?

Btw, maxs english is pretty good for a french his age imho ;)

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#25: Re: ..

by StillPeter on 09/18/2006 17:57, refers to #24

I didn't like the cube solution purely because it is technically against sourceforge standards.

Maybe throw a few hurdles to make cheating less easy and if someone has a build that won't connect because its an AMD64 then they can email the md5sum, CRC, whatever to someone in charge so they can enable that to connect to the masterserver so it can be updated to accept that md5 whatever?

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#26: Re: picking on language

by MeatROme on 09/18/2006 18:17, refers to #24

sorry, Max_of_S2D[Fr] -
I guess it came out more critical than I wanted it to ...
please, no offence was intended ...
what I actually wanted to say was :
"Hope I understood you correctly ..."

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#27: ..

by apflstrudl on 09/18/2006 18:25

i like votekick idea everyone can do a votekick and only the master of the server can kick someone directly. But for that you have to set a password and only the master who got servermaster with the password set with "-p" can kick.

Would that be possible?

I don't have friends who play sauerbraten. And you need a fast connection tu run a server with about 8 people. I know there are some, but i don't think that someone copies the IPs to connect directly if the master server is down and then kicks the others. And i don't think that everyone can get a server, or can i get some fro free???

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#28: Re: ..

by StillPeter on 09/18/2006 18:28, refers to #27

I like the idea of a password to get masterserver, but who would hand out the password?, the server owner?, that could be useful.

On the other hand, the idea of votekick isn't such a great idea, if I run multiple clients I can vote kick other people - even if I have to run some through proxies to do so.

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#29: ..

by apflstrudl on 09/18/2006 18:36

you can sett the password with the "-p" parameter in your server start file

"On the other hand, the idea of votekick isn't such a great idea, if I run multiple clients I can vote kick other people - even if I have to run some through proxies to do so"

don't know what you mean

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#30: Re: ..

by StillPeter on 09/18/2006 18:43, refers to #29

Well, if you have a vote, and I log into a server several times, I can control the outcome of the vote by voting with each connected client.

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#31: Vote kick?

by c0rdawg on 09/18/2006 20:58

I dunno, but from what I've heard, it seems like the cheaters going around are crashing clients, so it would be impossible to "votekick" them if they crash you.

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#32: ..

by chead on 09/18/2006 21:51

For the password stuff, you could just have a config with passwords for different users and some sort of auth command that client's can issue to the server.

Kids able to crash your client is a bigger problem, though.

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#33: notes:

by Aardappel_ on 09/18/2006 21:59

for those who are saying "I don't have friends who play sauerbraten": that's what this forum and our irc channel are for. If you have posted on here a few times, chances people will recognise you and therefore are your "friends" for playing online.

To all those who are helpfully suggesting us to do checksums or other player checks: please don't make suggestions if you don't understand the problem. If you think you can check a client in any way who has full sourcecode, you are probably not a programmer.

Myself and eihrul are no newbie programmers, and we have deep multiplayer implementation experience (besides just cube/sauer). If there was an technological solution that does not involve closed source and full server side gameplay, we'd know about it.

Anyway, I just asked SleepwalkR to take the masterserver offline. This is NOT a permanent decision. This is just to ruin the fun for the cheaters for the moment, and give us some time to rethink multiplayer. For now, if you want to play MP, best would be to come to IRC, all your known community members are there for a fun game.

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#34: Re: notes:

by Aardappel_ on 09/18/2006 22:07, refers to #33

oh, and for server operaters: if you run your server on a fixed IP, theoretically the cheaters can still get to your server without the masterserver. So prefer to play your private games on servers that are on dynamically assigned IPs for the moment.

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#35: Re: notes:

by StillPeter on 09/18/2006 22:14, refers to #33

I think the checksums thing is more to place a hurdle so that it's less easily done than simply changing a few values and compiling.

I fully realise that the right checksums can be gained by checksumming a genuine client, taking that value and using a modified client to send that value to the server for confirmation. I know it won't stop people who are a little more determined, but I would hope it would stem the tide a little.

I hope the masterserver can be turned on again relatively soon.

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#36: Re: notes:

by Passa on 09/18/2006 23:33, refers to #33

Lets hope the master server being turned off teaches those bastards a lesson..

BTW like Aardappel said about static IPs for server operators, if you have a dynamic IP, but a cable connection (which can hold the IP for weeeks) try changing your username on the modem, resetting it (it wont connect then obviously) wait a few minutes, reset it again, put your full username back in, and then reset the router/modem again.. you should have a different IP..

For those who have a static IP, you might have to turn your servers off for a while. The cheaters will have servers.cfg in their Sauerbraten directory obviously..

For those who want to meet up to find games, install mIRC (http://www.mirc.com/) then just go in the typing area bit at the bottom.. '/server uk.quakenet.org', press enter, once youre connected type /join #sauerbraten and youre done :D

The more people in #sauerbraten the better, so get on any IRC client and join the channel :P

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#37: damn them

by kurtis84 on 09/19/2006 00:11

Well, this sucks, but I'm sure it'll help in the long run. It's not such a big deal to meet via IRC to get a game organized...at least then you'll all know what to expect early. I don't expect any "smart" cheaters to use IRC to find the games either...it would expose them.

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#38: Re: damn them

by rancor on 09/19/2006 00:55, refers to #37

But my university blocks IRC...

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#39: Re: notes:

by Aardappel_ on 09/19/2006 02:08, refers to #36

I just joined a channel "#sauerlobby" on the same channel... we can experiment and see if people that want to play can hang out here.

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#40: ..

by Sauceofallevils.. on 09/19/2006 05:11

Well it would be a cool feature to be alb eto vote someone off, but it won't stop cheaters. It would obviously not be the solution, but in future, it might be aneat feautre to consider. Every game will have cheaters, who want to cheat every chance they get, it's a given. They are pussy gamers and have no other choice. I was playing instagib, and a guy had a machinegun! It was ridicolous, people should learn to play fairly.

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