Future ideas, the design.

by marvin2k on 05/10/2009 17:15, 70 messages, last message: 07/21/2009 01:15, 47708 views, last view: 06/26/2024 10:16

I surprised with all of new changes in cube2, they are really really good, congratulations to all. Anyway, i have always the same impresion with a lot of free games. They need a DESIGNER.
For me, sauer need a design team to all, there are a lot of things unconected, ilogical, rare. It need a design director that ordenate maps, UI, etc.. and made (with help) all of they similar or with a few temetic (or world) to be unity.
I really dont understand sometimes this kind of free games, beucause, they choose made without union, not like a circle.
This is that game needs really needs, and there are a lot of good designers on quadropolis. this is that i think, it is only a idea, you can dismiss, but cosiderer it.

bye!

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#27: Re: ..

by tentus_ on 05/17/2009 04:31, refers to #26

Quin is absolutely correct. Even in the case that there is monetary compensation at the end, I have had very poor luck in getting good artists to work with me for a lengthy duration: I usually end up having to resort to my own mid-range artistic abilities. In order for a project to succeed, you have to have people who are working in exact harmony, because even a small dissonance will grow impossibly large over a long span of time. The larger the team, the higher the probability of dissonance (I have had colleagues cite 6 people as the maximum before you have a probability of failure get to 1 for a project longer than a couple of months).

With artists, this is especially visible. With coders, because they're usually operating in the background, fewer people notice when they're missing or have ragequit. But with artists, because they control the presentation, when the team is down a man it is very noticeable. This is the case with Sauer: trying to find and hold a group of artists together for most of a decade is next to impossible, so you end up with the cacophony that we currently have.

All this said, I don't think that having a team is impossible. But look at the Eisenstern project: if you don't have a couple of solid leaders with clear visions, it isn't going to last to fruition.

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#28: Re: ..

by |ice|sub-zero|L on 05/17/2009 23:25, refers to #27

although true, there are many people that have jobs that take like 30 minutes to an hour to do. those people have the time to do so, the problem is they don't know about open source stuff, and they also don't know how to code. i on the other hand can only code until i get a better job- which will be time consuming atm i am getting a juob flipping burgers because i am only in high school, but even so i am working on adding to cube if i can. atm i am trying to make materials able to slant, making a "hurt" material, and making a youtube vid for cube awareness. this vid will be on youtube soon, and it can be send to all friends on myspace, facebook, and xanga, including all other web site that you can send HTML or other URl links. and yes altough many people have diffrent styles, i am a visionary, i picture in my mind what needs to be done, and my brother draws them exactly like i said. so really it doesn't always matter about the differing styles, it just matter if all people agree on the subject.

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#29: ..

by marvin2k on 05/18/2009 21:34

Hi

I´m not agree with quin "artist" vision. He speak well about, i,m agre with some considerations, but basically i think you don,t understand my position.

-I´m not talking about a big desing storyline to work around. You really dont need, and we dont want, made a comercial style design. We dont say anithing about a single player big new maps or models. A design leader only need ordenate and tray to do more comprensible game. For example; I start 2 years ago my solaris weapon, I talk only about rifle, when i use old rifle i ussually have a same problem. I havent any idea when the time of rechange weapon ends, i always push fire buton before it was ready. Why? because the animation dont say me the exact time to end, i made my rifle with the intention to solve this problem, when i use it, i want to know exactly whe it is ready. This is a design idea, the design is not made beautifull thinks like a comercial game. I work like a paper designer from 8am to 8 pm and i made this years for you my free work with my free time. I supose more people use they few hours a day to help you, you dont dismiss they with your coder superiority. when i do my comercial work, 80% of the design work is made understand thing, and easy thing for they, and 20% of beautiful design work. Sauer need that 80% of easy understand work. I hope your understand my words.
-What can be design work? Take some maps, with license, of course. And add some similar elements to try to do all of them (only few) looks like from similar game. with or wihout tematic. for example; adding same obj jumpers. It,s easy. Or little texture changes.

I think your dont understand the design work. i not made a comercial work, is not do a story line.
-Made logo contexts is easy, change type is easy, made little changes for you is easy, for us is very dificult work with your code, and a lot of people are doing hard work for you on quadropolis.

you need a desgn leathership to spoke with he to do your design changes, they are usually very poor. But PLEASE, dont say coders a better tham designer because we are still here before designers, we have our lives, you too. you have a good code, but poor game because an a poor design. Good design must upgrade your work.

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#30: rifle smoke

by )FC($k!llz_ on 05/18/2009 23:15

i think that instead of the boring, old rifle smoke, a LIGHTNING STRIKE!!! would be realy cool.

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#31: Re: rifle smoke

by MovingTarget on 05/18/2009 23:40, refers to #30

I did a stream of blue liquid-y plasma once. It would have looked good with the crossbow before it was replaced, but not so good with what is here now. Neither would a lightning strike.

Of course, it's not like Cube 2 strives for realism or anything, so..

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#32: Re: rifle smoke

by Hooded_Sniper on 05/18/2009 23:59, refers to #30

You can easily replace the bitmap in packages > particles (I think its there). But I agree that it probably wouldn't work that well with the new riffle.

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#33: Re: ..

by Quin on 05/19/2009 01:32, refers to #29

I think you're the one who misunderstands.

Nowhere did I say one person was better than another; open source projects usually consist of more coders than artists because artists usually are in short supply or move on quickly.

I also know how designing works, after all I do lead a project of my own and have to do a majority of the screening process myself. My point is that Open Source does not have the same pipeline as Commercial projects, nor does it have the same luxuries (dedicated artists, paid to be around for the entire lifetime of a project).

Yes, we can put some effort into a semi-cohesive design; this is negated by the fact that there is already an abundant amount of content for Sauerbraten that has no consistent theme whatsoever. This is what I am talking about when I mention legacy data.

Work for six odd years in an open source community, climbing your way up from an ignored nobody to a valuable somebody; then maybe your words will have a little more weight. I suspect by that point though though, your attitude and opinions on the matter would change; especially when you see the number of people who talk far outweigh those that produce something useful, most just don't have the patience to work for years on end before their dream comes true.

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#34: Re: ..

by |ice|sub-zero|L on 05/19/2009 06:06, refers to #33

basicly what quin is saying is if you don\'t have enough time and patance (can\'t spell, sorry)(which is hard to find at the day and age of fast paced stuff) they are tired of having to always live off of what they can get and thus they have to work in a \"part time job\", or basicly do what was known as \"bumming\" which is they pick up \"odd jobs\" and move on after doing it. or they can wait until some people think \"hey, perhaps i should give these people money. perhaps they can make me a background ect,ect, and i\'ll pay them for doing so.\"

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#35: Re: rifle smoke

by )FC($k!llz_ on 05/20/2009 05:37, refers to #31

i think the old waepons were qwnage, ecpecially the rock launcher. how did u get plasma?

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#36: Re: whoops!!

by )FC($k!llz_ on 05/20/2009 05:39, refers to #35

i meant pwnage. totaly wrong side of the keyboard lol

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#37: Re: rifle smoke

by |ice|sub-zero|L on 05/20/2009 06:08, refers to #35

waepons? and rock launchers? where was i when they made "rock launchers"? and if you want the old rocket launchers just redownload it to your computer (if you have to remodifie it) and use it.

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#38: Re: rifle smoke

by MovingTarget on 05/20/2009 17:35, refers to #35

I think you're on to something with "qwnage". :D

The plasma trail was a simple particle type change in the function that does weapon effects. You can get interesting results by, say, changing the trail from the smoke particle to the flame particle.

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#39: Re: rifle smoke

by tentus_ on 05/20/2009 17:55, refers to #37

I dunno, a rock launcher actually sounds like a lot of fun. Kinda like the grenade launcher, but instead of one exploding sphere you get a pickup-load of rock that will crush your foes beneath you and engender the lamentations of their women.

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#40: Art

by Kashmir on 05/20/2009 19:31

Having only played Sauerbraten for a few months now, I have always loved the free aspect of it, that is that everything that is created is made by those who play the game. I think adding a commercial aspect and having a "lead artist" would ruin the game. I am overjoyed to see the creativity from everyone that isn't pinned down or thrown away because it doesn't "fit the vision." What makes Sauer special is that it allows everyone to participate, which is why I absolutely hate the map "dust2," it should be removed from the official maps immediately, it is shameful to have a copied map in the new release. But I digress... I am an artist only, I know nothing of programming, and having a theme will kill Sauerbraten. Maybe for single player it's fine, but multiplayer maps should be created without some controlling freak denying your best ideas.

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#41: Re: Art

by |ice|sub-zero|L on 05/21/2009 01:09, refers to #40

quite honestly i am glad to see that someone could actually remake the map from ac and then putting it up on sauerbraten. although you mean well, this guy did good and it should not be removed. as an artest you should also remain calm about the problems that happen. if you don't like the map just don't play on it.

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#42: Re: rifle smoke

by |ice|sub-zero|L on 05/21/2009 01:12, refers to #39

lol, you my man have problems, but it is a pretty good idea.

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#43: Re: rifle smoke

by )FC($k!llz_ on 05/21/2009 02:46, refers to #38

i officially nominate myself for typo of the year.
but this particle. which folder is it in. id it in the regular particle folder, or a seperate rifle folder. and if its in the main particle folder, if i replace smoke, will it affect smoke in chimney?

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#44: Re: rifle smoke

by MovingTarget on 05/21/2009 03:02, refers to #43

No, I meant a change in the source code, in the function that is responsible for the weapon effects.

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#45: Re: rifle smoke

by )FC($k!llz_ on 05/21/2009 03:38, refers to #44

o damn, cause when i recompile, it freeses in 5 seconds

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#46: ..

by James2568 on 06/05/2009 20:44

All i think it really needs is for you to be able to program the AI for the monsters so you can also have things like team mates and monsters that have something and run away so the player cant get it without giving chase. Dont get me wrong theirs nothing bad about a pre-programmed AI but sometimes i want the AI to be able to do more then just run at you and shoot like a mad in need of serious help( reference to when there's something in there way and they try and run through it and shoot at it).

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