Future ideas, the design.

by marvin2k on 05/10/2009 17:15, 70 messages, last message: 07/21/2009 01:15, 46679 views, last view: 06/17/2024 03:12

I surprised with all of new changes in cube2, they are really really good, congratulations to all. Anyway, i have always the same impresion with a lot of free games. They need a DESIGNER.
For me, sauer need a design team to all, there are a lot of things unconected, ilogical, rare. It need a design director that ordenate maps, UI, etc.. and made (with help) all of they similar or with a few temetic (or world) to be unity.
I really dont understand sometimes this kind of free games, beucause, they choose made without union, not like a circle.
This is that game needs really needs, and there are a lot of good designers on quadropolis. this is that i think, it is only a idea, you can dismiss, but cosiderer it.

bye!

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#11: Re: Design/Directions

by mayhem on 05/12/2009 03:07, refers to #7

Just a note on tweaking the editing portion of cube 2.

Am I the only one who has difficulty finding the selection handle when it's occluded by map geometry? I've often wished this little orange box would be visible without having to fly around and 'make sure' I've got my selection oriented correctly. It isn't a huge problem, but it is a recurring snag for me.

I agree that in-game editing is where Cube 2 stands head and shoulders above all others and, in fact, this is what had drawn me in the first place. I'm sure many others whom we may never see in-game or on these forums were enticed by this very feature. I welcome any effort to improve on it.

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#12: Re: Design/Directions

by SheeEttin on 05/12/2009 03:55, refers to #11

Could tap 8 to toggle wireframe.

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#13: Re: Design/Directions

by mayhem on 05/13/2009 02:39, refers to #12

Thanks SheeEttin,
I've been doing that(when I remember to). I really should use wireframe more often when mapping.

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#14: Re: ..

by |ice|sub-zero|L on 05/13/2009 21:45, refers to #6

also new materials like ice and hurt and you might be able to slant materials ect,ect. if anyone can find the material "death" in the scripting for it i would be glad to try and make the "hurt" material. and for the ice material you would be able to slide ect,ect. and i would need someone who knows how to make ou slide and then add it to the new material. any one who wants to desine this stuff welcome. and new ideas for materials also welcome.

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#15: ..

by Hooded_Sniper on 05/13/2009 23:10

Quicksand could be interesting. Harder to get out of than water, and when your head is submerged you die.

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#16: ..

by K1P57A on 05/14/2009 19:54

It would be great that the UI could be divided in frames whereas people could contribute their own designs.

Similar to the pre existing UI files, but perhaps kept in a single hi-res 24 bit .png file, allowing transparency?

just an idea. Noone likes the same looks, so making them unique or be able to upload a greater variety to quadropolis would be awesome :)

cheers, Phil

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#17: Re: ..

by tentus_ on 05/14/2009 20:10, refers to #16

How would that work with different resolutions? I play at 1280x800, which is neither 4x3 or 16x9. I think the current way of storing the hud images is fine, it's just got a steeper learning curve than most people want to deal with.

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#18: Re: ..

by |ice|sub-zero|L on 05/15/2009 00:02, refers to #15

i can tell you what you need for that, you need the material water and reset the varibles, change the sound to a sandy sound, put the material death to a certan ammont below the sand and change the colors, also you might want to reset some other things 'cause if you don't you'll be able to see through it while being inside it.

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#19: ..

by Maxime -Max of S2D- Lebled on 05/15/2009 20:30

What would truly be awesome is a hurt material.

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#20: Re: ..

by )FC($k!llz_ on 05/15/2009 22:36, refers to #19

i think a gravity material would be kool, like expecially a negitive number, so u float up.

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#21: Re: ..

by |ice|sub-zero|L on 05/16/2009 01:42, refers to #19

didn't you read what i put, i am working on it, my problem now presists that i need these things: a way for the person to set their own amount of damage (1 hp-99 hp) , a way for the person to set their own time for it to hurt you again (1 sec-5 mins)and to set the defaults of damage and time while should be (damage 25%) and of (time 30 secs). it'll take time, but i'll be extreamly grateful if one of you people will help hake the "ice" material.

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#22: fine

by MisanthropX- on 05/16/2009 11:24

all your ideas are nice but..
the main topic is not "lets spam random ideas what are posted already 10 years ago"

i may requote the topic creator:
"They need a DESIGNER.
For me, sauer need a design team to all, there are a lot of things unconected, ilogical, rare. It need a design director that ordenate maps, UI, etc.. and made (with help) all of they similar or with a few temetic (or world) to be unity."

Sauerbraten is an open source game, everyone can contribute to quadropolis, and then when the map is good enough it gets into release..

I personally think a Team of "Main Designers" for Sauer would be really nice with people who dont map only..
Its true that sauer is too random atm..
: a random person creates random mapmodels, another one use it for his map. and someone is doint tex and someone is using it.

A designer team would be really nice..
So you can create Mapmodels, Textures and maps together.
Then you can put all together,
Cause everyone isnt able to create tex, models and maps.
And also especially the map designers.
you can't create a proper map with more
then four people, at least if not all are making layout.

Well.. thios would be actually a nice idea but.. many like to work alone cause they know maps are better when they are built alone, cause then the other one/s cant fuck up layout/design/lights etc.

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#23: ..

by Quin on 05/16/2009 13:47

Bottom line is, unless you care to start paying everyone, you're not going to get this in the Open Source world. Period.

If you do want to throw money around though, I won't say no :P

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#24: ..

by MisanthropX- on 05/16/2009 14:21

There are people who like to do it for free.. like me

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#25: Re: ..

by |ice|sub-zero|L on 05/16/2009 17:35, refers to #24

and if i knew how to do it all myself or with a few of my friends, of course i would do it for free.

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#26: Re: ..

by Quin on 05/17/2009 03:51, refers to #25

Sure, everyone will do it for free, but you forget that a commercial pipeline for development requires commercial resources, like money. A bunch of people just randomly working together almost absolutely ensures a myriad of different styles, etc.

If you're really after consistency there needs to be a lead artist *running* the project who directs how things need to look. Coders just don't have this same level of ability in that area, but the open source community is largely run by coders because they're the only ones that usually stick around for the entire lifespan of a project.

I've seen too many people come and go to fully appreciate the dilemma here. People are unreliable, they have lives and they go away; so the coders take who they can get, when they can get it, and try not to get too attached to the artists contributing because deep down they know the relationship isn't going to last forever.

Meanwhile, through all the different people, the coders needs to press on, keep developing and moving the project forward so that stagnation (and death) of the project doesn't occur. It's all very well to offer your help, but there's two caveats:

A) Are you going to be able to do *everything* the project needs art-wise, in sublime quality that rivals the art direction of a commercial title? If not you waste everybody's time with topics like these.

B) Can you guarantee that you will be around for as long as the project exists? I can assure you here that nobody is able to make that promise, not even the coders; but we tend to have little enough lives for it to not be such an issue.

Artists almost always have their own visions of what something should look like and how it should act. This almost *always* clashes with the reality of the project or situation. An artist coming in at the middle of the project will be hindered by legacy support within the project for older data (as is very much the case with Cube 2's history). Then you have those users that are averted to change, as has been demonstrated by Geartrooper's work with the new models; where there's finally a coherent design but people are so attached the the old hodge-podge of random models they complain.

In particular, this is exactly why I work on Blood Frontier; I understand that I am not an artist, and I have no interest in art direction or storyline. This afforded Acord the ability, as an artist, to have full control over that side of the project *from the very beginning*. He has remained content with his level of control, while still working with me to make a better game from a coding standpoint, and accommodating my own meager wishes for the project.

If anything, this is how it should be working, but it's very rare any project starts with an artist leading the charge; Acord just went that extra mile to make his vision come true, and he was rewarded for it by piquing my interest and landing me as his lead developer. He started alone, and he made a very broken demo of what he wanted, but it all showed just how determined he was to pull it off; he didn't want to do the coding, but he did it to see his vision come to life.

To be honest, when I came along I scrapped his code and rewrote it all myself. If you want to start a project with proper art direction, you need to put in the work to make sure it happens from the very start.

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#27: Re: ..

by tentus_ on 05/17/2009 04:31, refers to #26

Quin is absolutely correct. Even in the case that there is monetary compensation at the end, I have had very poor luck in getting good artists to work with me for a lengthy duration: I usually end up having to resort to my own mid-range artistic abilities. In order for a project to succeed, you have to have people who are working in exact harmony, because even a small dissonance will grow impossibly large over a long span of time. The larger the team, the higher the probability of dissonance (I have had colleagues cite 6 people as the maximum before you have a probability of failure get to 1 for a project longer than a couple of months).

With artists, this is especially visible. With coders, because they're usually operating in the background, fewer people notice when they're missing or have ragequit. But with artists, because they control the presentation, when the team is down a man it is very noticeable. This is the case with Sauer: trying to find and hold a group of artists together for most of a decade is next to impossible, so you end up with the cacophony that we currently have.

All this said, I don't think that having a team is impossible. But look at the Eisenstern project: if you don't have a couple of solid leaders with clear visions, it isn't going to last to fruition.

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#28: Re: ..

by |ice|sub-zero|L on 05/17/2009 23:25, refers to #27

although true, there are many people that have jobs that take like 30 minutes to an hour to do. those people have the time to do so, the problem is they don't know about open source stuff, and they also don't know how to code. i on the other hand can only code until i get a better job- which will be time consuming atm i am getting a juob flipping burgers because i am only in high school, but even so i am working on adding to cube if i can. atm i am trying to make materials able to slant, making a "hurt" material, and making a youtube vid for cube awareness. this vid will be on youtube soon, and it can be send to all friends on myspace, facebook, and xanga, including all other web site that you can send HTML or other URl links. and yes altough many people have diffrent styles, i am a visionary, i picture in my mind what needs to be done, and my brother draws them exactly like i said. so really it doesn't always matter about the differing styles, it just matter if all people agree on the subject.

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#29: ..

by marvin2k on 05/18/2009 21:34

Hi

I´m not agree with quin "artist" vision. He speak well about, i,m agre with some considerations, but basically i think you don,t understand my position.

-I´m not talking about a big desing storyline to work around. You really dont need, and we dont want, made a comercial style design. We dont say anithing about a single player big new maps or models. A design leader only need ordenate and tray to do more comprensible game. For example; I start 2 years ago my solaris weapon, I talk only about rifle, when i use old rifle i ussually have a same problem. I havent any idea when the time of rechange weapon ends, i always push fire buton before it was ready. Why? because the animation dont say me the exact time to end, i made my rifle with the intention to solve this problem, when i use it, i want to know exactly whe it is ready. This is a design idea, the design is not made beautifull thinks like a comercial game. I work like a paper designer from 8am to 8 pm and i made this years for you my free work with my free time. I supose more people use they few hours a day to help you, you dont dismiss they with your coder superiority. when i do my comercial work, 80% of the design work is made understand thing, and easy thing for they, and 20% of beautiful design work. Sauer need that 80% of easy understand work. I hope your understand my words.
-What can be design work? Take some maps, with license, of course. And add some similar elements to try to do all of them (only few) looks like from similar game. with or wihout tematic. for example; adding same obj jumpers. It,s easy. Or little texture changes.

I think your dont understand the design work. i not made a comercial work, is not do a story line.
-Made logo contexts is easy, change type is easy, made little changes for you is easy, for us is very dificult work with your code, and a lot of people are doing hard work for you on quadropolis.

you need a desgn leathership to spoke with he to do your design changes, they are usually very poor. But PLEASE, dont say coders a better tham designer because we are still here before designers, we have our lives, you too. you have a good code, but poor game because an a poor design. Good design must upgrade your work.

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#30: rifle smoke

by )FC($k!llz_ on 05/18/2009 23:15

i think that instead of the boring, old rifle smoke, a LIGHTNING STRIKE!!! would be realy cool.

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